Orlando City an MLS Favorite

Discussion in 'Orlando City SC' started by haaamean, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. njndirish

    njndirish Member

    Jul 14, 2008
    Notre Dame, IN
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some forced: Washington Nationals, Toronto Raptors, Phoenix Coyotes, mainly teams that are a result of the league throwing its need for expansion and footprint obsession around.

    Meanwhile places like Winnipeg, Houston wanted the team. Built teams are a process of integration with the community, the natural demand for the team, and the desire to see the team as an extended representation of the community. Most teams are built teams because they have come to represent their supporters.
     
  2. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Phoenix wasn't really "forced", per se. That was the Winnipeg Jets. Why the NHL couldn't simply let Winnipeg have them back, I don't know.
     
  3. njndirish

    njndirish Member

    Jul 14, 2008
    Notre Dame, IN
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NHL put hockey in the desert because NHL was obsessed with footprint filling teams. In hindsight, in the last two decades of the 20th century, NHL and NBA had the obsession of promoting their sport by spreading it out. It helped that they had two of the best players ever to play their respective sport playing at the time, but come 2000 when both of these men were long departed, you could see the ruins of expanding for expansion sake as attendance dropped and quality dropped. The best way to spread a sport is by looking for people that want you.

    This is why I've enjoyed the most recent batch of MLS expansion. The teams had some sort of roots put in place whether it was an existing team or a supporters base.
     
  4. Papadop

    Papadop Member

    Sep 19, 2010
    Metro Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    njndirish is dead on. Both his "expansion for expansion sake" point and his "home built" franchise analysis are the most insightful posts I've read in a while. They should be required reading for Mr. Garber and his staff.

    Is there really a clamor for a second NYC Club? I know there's eight million plus people in New York but where's the throngs of supporters demanding the Cosmos' return? Maybe they're out there. I'm not sure.

    I do know there are exciting things happening in Florida (Orlando, Ft. Lauderdale and St. Pete). I've seen the families, the couples, the business men and women, the youth league players. All cheering on their lower division heros like they were legends.

    Orlando should be the next expansion city. South Florida, and Tampa Bay should soon follow. Florida is ready.
     
  5. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is kind of where I am at right now too. NYC2 seemed like a good idea when Montreal was announced, but the flame has kind of dwindled. Other than a few posters here, I really do not hear too much hype or excitement coming out of NY. There does not seem to be a huge groundswell of support for a second team. So far a viable and practical stadium option has not appeared. And the Red Bulls are not filling their new stadium as well or consistently as hoped.
    Meanwhile, Orlando has made a lot of noise and gotten a lot of support for a first year, D3 team. Their on field success should play nicely into their marketing plans, which will only increase their support.
    From there, the passionate groups in Tampa & Miami (probably Atlanta too) have something else to build upon since they are "bigger" and more established as pro cities than Orlando. Three teams in Florida, or two in Florida and one in Atlanta could make a nice little triangle like the Pac NW, but with a unique culture.
     
  6. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see how an Atlanta club would add much to a Florida rivalry. They'd just be a nearby team, maybe a future rival depending on how games go.
     
  7. njndirish

    njndirish Member

    Jul 14, 2008
    Notre Dame, IN
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since the Cosmos organization has imploded, there has been a lack of words coming from it. To me it looks very similar to the St. Louis expansion bid back in 2009, lots of posturing.

    Also how the supporters and owners act towards each other. An example is the DC-Seattle Rivalry brought about by the WeWinTrophies.com and the lead up to the game. I believe there is potential for a Florida Derby on the level of Cascadia, it will just take a while to get there.
     
  8. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DC and Seattle having a rivalry makes about as much sense as...it doesn't make any sense. pretty much exactly what I'm talking about.
     
  9. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    tbh with the closed structure of these leagues there's not much point in knowing the difference between D2/D3 anyway. And now with Montreal leaving too, D2 is kind of a joke. I wish they just merged those leagues again.
     
  10. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    PS i meant to reply to some post there that i thought was right at the end but either i reply in a wrong thread or it was in some other page. :eek:
     
  11. DCUnited82Fan

    DCUnited82Fan New Member

    Feb 14, 2012
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Orlando or South Florida. I just hope that MLS decides as Florida for the 20th team I really don't want to see a 2nd NY team. I know Florida has potential and things are different from a few years ago. I really want to see Florida get a MLS team down there.
     
  12. ChuckDzzNutz

    ChuckDzzNutz Member

    Jan 27, 2012
    Florida
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably not the appropriate thread so feel free to delete if you'd like, but planning on heading down from North Florida for the Union game on Saturday. If anybody has a deal on tickets, PLEASE PM me.
     
  13. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. JaxFC

    JaxFC Member

    Aug 30, 2011
    proof?
    i want to see facts?
    because the population is growing leaps and bounds. In the last 7 years we've literally had a city built inside Jacksonville. With around 20,000 new homes built.

    Plus Mayport naval station is set to bring in thousands more sailors and families in a couple years by getting a nuclear carrier. Which is a perfect demographic from the words of Garber saying hes focusing on the younger crowd ( most people on a naval ship are under the age of 30).

    Jacksonville is growing and could be a viable option if an investor group is found.

    We will see what our attendance is in May for a USMNT game.

    And about the jaguars. Our Attendance for the Jaguars isnt That bad. The reason our stadium is never super full is because its one of the biggest in the league. On top of our franchise being a loosing franchise 8 our of the last 10 seasons, thats enough to drop attendance for any team. I believe our overall attendance last season was like 22 out of the 32 teams in the nfl, dont quote me on that, going from memory in an article i read couple months ago.
     
  15. MiWilson

    MiWilson Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Orlando is the best chance the south has at getting a team. period.
     
  16. ChuckDzzNutz

    ChuckDzzNutz Member

    Jan 27, 2012
    Florida
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jacksonville's attendance was 25th in the league according to ESPN:

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance

    One of the primary problems with pro franchises in Florida is that too many people here are not actually from Florida. I'm a sixth generation Floridian, and I remember my first job out of college at a radio station in Orlando, I was literally the only person working there that was born in the state. Transplants will still support teams if they lay roots long enough. I'd much rather Jacksonville get a team than O-Town. I went to the City-Union game Saturday and frankly was a little disappointed with the attendance, even though I understand it was a preseason game. I'll be at the MNT game and I expected the turnout to be impressive. I even have a friend from Scotland who's coming across the pond with a group of friends. I looked, however, at the previous time Jax hosted a MNT game (a 3-0 win over Germany in 1999) and the attendance was only 17,000+ according to U.S. Soccer site. The sport has grown in popularity since so I'm assuming it will be larger this time around but I wouldn't expect anything phenomenal.

    http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/us-men/schedule-results/1999.aspx
     
  17. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    25th in the league, while averaging over 60,000. Something neither Miami nor Tampa Bay could do in 2011. And visually they did draw better than either of the others. The only year Jacksonville failed to reach 60k was 2009. The situation in Jacksonville for the NFL is nowhere near as bad as the media portrays it to be, while they ignore grievous situations elsewhere.
    Built, but are they occupied? Orlando is recovering, but we still have a ton of unoccupied houses from our housing boom.

    And that was a media market stat, not a physical population stat. I'm tired of re-posting Nielsen's DMA info for 2011-12, so you'll have to do that research yourself. That was not a knock on Jacksonville; I've been one of its biggest defenders. Tampa Bay is doing even worse than they are.
     
  18. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    you sir are delusional. i live in Jax .. have for over a decade. it is a sh*thole and an oversized redneck town ... if it isn't golf or football nobody is interested. i can count on one hand the number of people in this town i know that follow professional soccer and most of that is fans of Euro teams. attendance for a Jax MLS team would be pathetic ... there simply is no soccer culture here and i doubt you could get more than 5k fans a game even if you gave away free tickets.

    and the jags declining attendance over the years and the incessant need to "decrease" the size of the stadium to prevent blackouts (which still doesn't work) show that this town isn't even big enough to support a pro team in the one sport the area absolutely loves. jax shouldn't have any professional teams ... and to think that they could support an MLS team ... a sport which there is probably 2:1 animosity vs love for is just down right deluded.
     
  19. JaxFC

    JaxFC Member

    Aug 30, 2011
    Idk what part of Jacksonville you live in, but even if what you said is true, that can literally be just your side of the city. Jacksonville is the biggest city in the united states(land wise) so if your limited to the north side or west side, i wouldn't expect you to see the soccer culture.

    Jax is home to the second biggest academy in the united states, as well as more then 10 youth organizations within in Jax.

    We will see with this national team game in May. I personally know a lot of non-soccer people who have started to open up to the sport recently.
     
  20. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know if this helps Orlando's cause per se, but it reaffirms what many people keep saying about Tampa:
    To me it's a soft confirmation that a new Florida market - Orlando - is the target. Which we already knew, but it should kind of take the wind out of Tampa's sails a bit...

    http://www.dispatch.com/content/blogs/covering-the-crew/2012/02/state-of-the-league.html
     
  21. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    i live in the hippest part of jax (not saying much) riverside ... and even in the most cultured part of the city riverside/downtown there is hardly overwhelming soccer culture and support.

    jax will NEVER get an MLS team and probably couldn't even support a D2 or D3 team ... and it being so large land area wise is part of the problem ... there is no central place to put the team to play and lots of people won't travel across the city to see a minor league sport ... the city is very "regionalized" and people tend to stay in their section of the city since it is so spread out.

    the idea of a Jax team in MLS is simply laughable to any sane and objective person who lives here.

    and the attendance of the USMNT game has no bearing on that ... tho i suspect it will not be as strong as in other places ... because a one off event means almost nothing in relation to long term pro soccer support.
     
  22. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS, perhaps not, but you might be surprised by the soccer culture. In 2011 they got TWO amateur teams, the PDL FC Jax Destroyers and NPSL Jacksonville United. They drew 1,000 and 500 per game, respectively, and United won the NPSL title. Considering they both are first-year fourth-tier teams, that is not a bad start by any stretch.

    I could see Jacksonville easily supporting a USL Pro team, and have suggested they get one if/when Orlando moves to MLS. Especially with the other coastal teams in Charleston and Wilmington. Add Savannah, and it would be a nice derby.

    Some people here laughed at Orlando even getting a USL team, too. Now everyone's talking about the possibility of us getting MLS.
     
  23. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    okay, so i might have been engaging in a bit of hyperbole ... they probably would be a decent USLPro/PDL (3rd/4th division) city ... averaging between 1K-2K ... but that would be about every single soccer fan in the city. the idea of Jax being an MLS calibre city is just so laughable that i cannot believe somebody said it with a straight face. Birmingham AL would be a better choice and that is so far down the list they wouldn't get a team in a 30 team MLS.
     
  24. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If MLS were smart, they would look at mid-sized markets with little or no major-league penetration beyond the 20th team. Tucson, Birmingham, Tulsa, Las Vegas and a host of plains cities would make good candidates. I would look at Tucson or Rochester as a low-water mark for media market size. That would work better if they decide to take over the second tier.
     
  25. JaxFC

    JaxFC Member

    Aug 30, 2011
    Thats exactly the problem, the area you live in is 1. extremly rich 2.extremly old 3, part of the eclectic community that lives there(all the scene/emo kids all grown up). or 4, the small group of normal people that live in the area.

    Have you ever attended a Jax united game? First season in division 4 with next to NO advertising and we pulled respectable numbers. Obv not mls worthy but with a couple years of building a franshice here, advertising the team, and if we found an investor group with deep pockets, I would see no reason why Jax couldnt support an mls club in a few years, especially if the franchise were to kick off around 2014.
     

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