"Do you know that 'if' is the middle word in life? 'If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, if Nigel de Jong is a little taller, if Jaap Stam were still playing'..."
One thing that isn't mentioned is that the Russian league takes off a couple of months because of the bad winter weather and then restarts in March. Since most of their team is made up of league players they have played fewere matches than almost all the other players in the tournament. they are also the youngest team in the tourney. I think Arvshavin is the oldest starter and he is only 27 years old. The Dutch back four is older and slower which was in evidence today.
No... I don't buy that. Now we are coming into the preseason/freshness excuse. If Russia would have lost, I am sure we would have heard that the players where just starting their season in contrast to the other teams. Now that they have won, it is because they are fresh. If the Dutch would have won, we would have heard the experience won the game. No, something happened in those days. I don't know if they were having sex, overworking, etc. but something happened.
You don't have to take my word for it. Van Basten said essentially the same thing in the post-game news conference. the final 15 minutes there were some players on the field that didn't have anything more to give. We went into the tournament realizing that our back four was problematic and that was the case today. At the end it was yournger legs against older legs, plain and simple. You have to remember that these tournaments are as much about luck as skill. Russia has had both in the tourney. If the Greek goal keeper didn't screw up and Sweden had defended Villa properly it would have been the Dutch against the Swedes today. However, as I noted earlier the Russians were my dark horse team of the tournament. I had seen several qualifying matches and demonstrating good speed and a sound game plan. I don't think this is a matter of one team being outcoached, rather one team being better today in almost all facets of the game. I would say that Van der Sar was the better goalkeeper on the field but it is difficult to say that any other Dutch field player was better than their Russian counterpart.
I agree with most of your points, except for your first about Engelaar. I thought Orlando was horrible. Defensively, he was OK (though slow as can be like always), but he's so unskilled that he continually slowed the breakouts because he can't and won't use his right foot. So, he'd collect the ball, and then he'd kick it all the way back to van der Sar because it was the only left-footed play he could make. Someone so one-dimensional doesn't belong in the side, especially against a fast team like Russia. He should have been pulled at halftime.
Well, I think Marco went to the well one too many times with the starting lineup. With no Robben, and more importantly with the way the Russians played, I'm not sure if a different starting 11 would have made a difference, but going with the same guys didn't show much foresight. But I can't blame him too much as I think we were all blinded by how brilliant the whole team played in the group stage. There wasn't much to be done with the back four given how poorly Heitinga played after coming on (and here I thought he should have been starting!), unless van Basten had inserted Bouma, but I have to say I was kind of surprised van Persie wasn't starting at least. I thought van der Sar was the best player for Oranje. Ruud was decent, too, and he was getting mugged the whole match. De Jong wasn't great but was good enough. Everyone else was pretty poor, especially Affelay, who seemed clueless and afraid of the touchline, and Engelaar, which I explained above.
What is Maduro's current form? Why was he left out of the squad, perhaps he could have provided more offensive ability from Orlando's position. I also noticed that about Engelaar's unwillingness to use his right foot, but I thought often his cross field passes with the outside of his boot were a thing of beauty.
Are you trying to tell me that luck had no part in Holland coming above Italy and France to win the group so they would've automatically been here today unlike Russia?
The Dutch looked like they were running in sand. They didn't have the legs today. Overall, skill-wise the Russians aren't close to the Dutch. But they brought the youngest team in the tournament. Guus' selection of young players paid off today. It reminded me of the US Portugal game at WC 2002. No one gave the US any chance but after 20 minutes the had a 3 to 0 lead. The US also had the youngest team at WC 2002.Guus is the best coach but also probably the luckiest. When Russia lost to Israel no one gave them a chance of qualifying. Afterall, Croatia already clinched their spot, and were playing England in London. Who would have predicted Croatia would eliminate England at Wembley? IMHO, the Dutch ,without doubt, produce the best coaches in the world. Why did they pick someone with no previous coaching experience? I do agree with Van Bastian that the Russian league having had 3 months off during the winter benefitted the Russians against the Dutch. Most people grossly underestimate how much adequate rest and chronologic age play in an athlete's overall performance.
Congrats Russia, you came to play, Holland didnt (as usual) Not sure what happened but that was a typical Dutch display! *hangs head in shame*
Yeah something happenend alright, Boula's daughter died. Its all specualtion ofcourse, but Oranje lacked the 'free of cares' spirit they had in the first three matches, seriousness took over. Combined with tough opposition of the Russians, they returned to their old self we saw during qualification. Damn shame if you ask me, this wasn't necessary. Somehow I think we would have been better of with Spain..
I heard it can buy you a good coach, Mr Hiddink isn't necessarily in Russia for the good climate you know..
Very hard to take being an Oranje supporter as we all know, but in football there are so many talking points win or lose, good or bad you must be objective, and with that said all credit to Russia on the night. Thank God for the World Class Van Der Sar, and some horrible finishing by Russia to go along with the shite marking by Oranje and the Russians could have had double digit goals. Having no Robben did not help that would be one for the obvious as Affellay was not up to par. Babel would have been nice if fit, but that's the way it goes. After praising Boula for his much better offensive play against Romania last game he showed his previous limitations with the ball, although much credit and respect to Khalid for even playing after his family tradgedy. However on the footballing matters Russia were smart for letting him see time on the ball as he provides little in terms of dangerous play. Hiddink was smart to shut down the left flank and Gio who can play with the ball as we know. In general Guus cut out the Dutch midfield which is quite obviously the strength, and said we will let the defense play with the ball to beat us. Mathijsen was so bad tonight as was Oiijer who were constantly out of position. Nothing more to add other than state more of the obvious that two younger or better options must be in the reckoning for the future. Please note this item Bert! Van Der Vaart other then his free kicks was poor, Sneijder was not involved enough, and Ruud did not get enough service. Van Persie was poor and showed that selfish side. De Jong was pretty good doing a lot of running and covering, and in actuallity probably way too much of both, but due to the Oranje's shambolic backline play especially in the middle (SUPRISE) he was called into extra service. Kuyt did nothing, and was rightly subbed off at halftime. Engelaar is slow and obviously overly reliant on his left peg, but he has done well overall. Russia were in better fitness there was no doubt about that, and the ref who I do not rate at all Lubos Michel was not good, but the better team was Russia plain and simple. Oranje will need more hunger, better fitness, and defending going forward. I will always believe in Oranje! 100% Oranje!!!!
Apparently you didn't watch the game. And please , don't compare USA with Russia. Now you are just embarrassing youself. "It is better to keep quiet and be thought to be a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubts"
Painful game to watch. The equalizer late gave us all false hope. I almost wish we had lost in regulation to save face. I don't think I've ever seen us outplayed so badly before. Arshavin wow what a player. *sigh*
I don't think holland were outplayed as badly as you guys are making out. Russia had the play for most of the game yes, and opened up holland's defence quite easily several times and had 2-3 sitters they missed, but it wasn't as bad as you guys are making out.
Have to agree with the analysis of Engelaar's performance against Russia. I noticed at least two counter attacks where he held up play, and not because he was alone in the attack as there were players with him. This allowed the Russians to get back and shut down any options that would have been available if he pushed up or passed the ball ahead instead of laterally or behind. But in all honesty our whole midfield played like garbage, with stretches of the game where they were absent from view. Not the way the Dutch really play, especially offensively. I can't really hate on De Jong's play as I saw him as one of the only Dutch players who was coming back to help at the back, and he was somewhat involved in attack (which was hard as he had to cover for our weak backline performance, which has already been covered, and to spare my self further agitation will not cover further) Hope he gets the call for our qualifiers. Another thing... what the hell were the two defenders doing on the 2nd Russian goal? The Russian (I think it was Torbinski) just bolted between two Dutch defenders (one was Gio, the other I think was Ooijer) while they stood and watched... I know I said I wouldn't talk about the back four but I had to get this off my chest. But in the end the Russians deserved the win and I think they can beat either Spain or Italy if they play the way they did against us. They have the fitness, the speed and the passing ability to run through both of their midfields and backlines, especially Italy's. Once again, Van der Sar was wicked in net... Too bad he's leaving and had to end his Oranje days with this loss. Still, let's hope that WC qualifiers see the Dutch play the way we know they can, and not this de-spirited way...
Snipped our some stuff because the mutiquote didn't seem to be working right. Just want to add my 2 Euros worth to the observation. I think this really is the best summation of what went wrong. Hiddink probably knew that Robben was out for the match and planned accordingly. Robben and Babel were the only true left wingers on the original roster. Without a threat from the left, things were always going to be limited. Russia only had to be concerned with Gio going forward and since they always threatened a counter attack, his options here were gonig to be limited. About 15 minutes into the match Kuyt switched over to the left but as noted was not effective; too bad as he generally had a good tournament. given the back four the two holding midfielders were really the only way to go to help out the defense. However, this is predicated on the fullbacks being able to go up the flanks to help out. Boularhouz actually did well in this regard. the only other option here would have been a healthy Melchiot who is a better threat and much better crosser of the ball (but has other defensive limitations and his injury probably didn't make him an option either). We can complain all we want about the two center backs but I don't think there were any other options (except to roll the clock back to the Stam de Boer pairing). Heitinga had a terrible game once in (though he was at fullback rather than center back). I watched the replay late last night and both Mathijson and Oojier were passable for the first 50 minutes or so. I think the constant Russia pressure wore them (and others down). Except for free kicks (which were very threatening) Van der Vaart was ineffective. I think he really doesn't have a position with this team as with Hamburg he plays right behind the striker in a 4-5-1. I was surprised about Sneijder's poor game. He was bad for the first 60 minutes before waking up and getting in the game. Van Persie was no better than Kuyt which was surprising considering how well he played in the previous match. Afellay looked lost as noted. Other than the team lacking the joie de vivre they displayed in the earlier matches could anything have been done differently? Given the Russia back line was really suspect (look how they lost everyone on free kicks; we can't help the fact that de Jong was just too short for VdV's two threatening free kicks) it might have made sense to try a 4-4-2 with two solid strikers. Maybe having both Ruud and Van Persie (or even Kuyt who was out of place on the wing) up front would have created more difficulty for the defense. Even if they did this they would have still had the left mid-field problem (Drenthe would have been great in that roll as he played some for Madrid this season). time to regroup and think about the future. Remember the under 23s won two consecutive championships and the under 17s didn't do so bad recently as well. We still face the perennial problem on defense and maybe this is something we have to live with. Italy always seems to develop rock solid backline players, we seem to favor midfielders and strikers.
I can't really believe that yesterday I watched the same team that shut out Italy and France. Sure the Russians were good and they've got a brilliant coach. But that does not explain why the Netherlands were so off character in comparance to previous games. Has this anything to do with Boulahrouz's recent family tragedy I wonder? If so, that would mean that Van Basten nevertheless proved himself unfit for topflight coaching. Despite displaying an impressive level of tactical acumen during recent games Boulahrouz' misfortunes could not have influenced the team's spirit if Van Basten and his coaching staff were not completely ignorant as to how to handle psychological setbacks like these. If a (and I quote) "de-spirited" style of football is the way these guys saw if fit to solemnize their sympathy with Boulahrouz' and his family, then something is completely the miss in the psychology department of the entire NL team. They were like shadows of themselves yesterday.