Ongoing Portland Stadium Thread

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

I'm not sure what these people expect Paulson to do. He tried the Rose Quarter to replace an aging stadium with a new one, everyone cried about how it was "historic". Have they made any strides in fixing it or making it useful? No.

He goes to Lents park, which people have neglected for years...and they come out of the woodwork again. Worse yet, they think they have a right to be disrespectful just because they do not agree with the project. Will they use the money to bring businesses in and fix up the park? No. Because these people will disappear again and it will sit there...aging like the Memorial Coliseum.

This looks bad for the future of MLS in Portland. It's a damn shame too, because that would be an awesome city for MLS.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

NIMBYism at its best, alas. Welcome to civics/politics in the Pacific Northwest. It's a great idea until its placed in your neighborhood, then it is the worst possible thing in the world.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

There are some other issues regarding Memorial Coliseum than just it being "historic". It also suffers under a bad operating arrangement with the same company that operates the Rose Garden, and they still manage to make a small yearly profit and hold 170 events per year. If it was truly redundant, sitting next to the Rose Garden, then the "historic" and "memorial" arguments probably wouldn't be enough to save it.

The Lents neighborhood isn't anything to write home to mom about, but Lents Park itself is not bad at all. It's one of the only nice things the neighborhood has going for it. They spent a lot of money on it last year to move a bunch of little league fields to the park. Here is an overhead view of the north end of the park. You can see the small stadium that would have been replaced with the new Beavers stadium:

It's only been a couple hours since this turn of events has taken place. Let's see how things shake out. For the time being, we know for sure that we have Adams' vote. Saltzman is also supportive of a PGE Park-only deal. Fish and Fritz are opposed, but I think Fish will go for the PGE Park-only solution if Paulson is serious about taking the Beavers out of Portland. And we can't be certain that Leonard won't change his mind. He is an emotional shoot-from-the-hip type of politician.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

I hear Vancouver, WA is looking to do a waterfront rejuvenation in the near future.. I'm sure they'd love to include a AAA baseball stadium in that...

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

Paulson didn't do anything but admit reality, which is that Lents obviously won't abide the stadium voluntarily, and there's very possibly no area of Portland that will. If after all this exhaustive effort, Leonard doesn't think he's "serious," it says something about Leonard and not Paulson.

In fact, it appears to me to be the opposite of how you're construing it. Paulson won't threaten take his ball and go home, so Leonard wants to force him to do so, because he seems to still think that threat will get a baseball stadium built. Right now that belief is looking misplaced.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

Randy Leonard responds to Merritt Paulson:

http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2009/06/19/leonard-cant-now-support-mls

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

For most people in the Pacific Northwest, any change is the worst possible thing in the world, no matter the neighborhood.

I have been in/around politics and growth issues in this area for more than a decade now, and I can't imagine any place in the nation is as bad -- though others will probably disagree.

People here are either locals who feel like they have been put upon by "big city" folks from California or other places, or people from California who have just arrived and don't want anything to change for fear it will change into what they have just fled.

I sure hope Portland doesn't blow this. But my feeling is that if any town is capable of it, it's Portland. Heck Seattle would be just as bad if they had tried anything involving a new stadium. This area of the country is boldly anti-everything.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

True, true. Usually takes a fairly strong leader to ram the change down people's throats. Unfortunately for Portland, its mayor is currently in the midst of a sex scandal so has about as much influence as a sick kitten.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

Not to digress from the thread, but, in the recent public comment portion of San Jose's stadium EIR, only two people showed up to voice an opinion. One was a resident of the neighborhood near Buck Shaw (Quakes temp home) who just wanted to say, "please approve this so they move out of Buck Shaw as soon as possible", and a representative of the Hitachi Corp, who wanted to see what opportunities there could be between the Quakes and Hitachi.
Absolutely no NIMBY problems for a stadium site that is only about two miles from downtown, has great freeway access, mass transit nearby, and right next to San Jose Intl. airport.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2009/06/19/dan-saltzman-also-ready-to-move-forward-on-soccer-deal/

Confirmation that Dan Saltzman will vote for the soccer deal. With Adams, that makes 2 votes.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com...19/commissioners-thoughts-on-paulsons-pullout

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

I still feel that Leonard is just being his same old windbag self and will come around in the next few days. Let's hope he does, because I will feel sick having to rely on Nick "I'm the biggest soccer fan here" Fish to pass this through.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

wow, you stay classy lents.

what a f'ing joke. honestly, if i had true say in this, i say bye bye beavers. honestly, i attend many more soccer games at PGE than baseball games. attendance is higher for the timbers games anyways. MLS in portland will put more asses in the seats and bring in more money than the beavers and USL timbers combined.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

Really? Don't the Beavers play around 70 home games? I doubt many MLS teams draw anything near 400,000 fans a year.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

Clark County and the City of Vancouver have been facing operating losses of 10%-15% - new capital projects are just not happening in those conditions. Washington County and the City of Hillsboro have similar problems. The counties' commissioners may talk a good game about bringing the Winterhawks or Beavers to either but they're just talking right now. They wouldn't dare make a promise involving actual dollars amounts and real money.

I think we Northwesterners aren't letting outsiders in on just how cash-starved, even in the good times, cities are around here and how that is a direct result of the craptacular funding models regnant in both states. That is why there are all these games about the URD in Portland because that has been the City of Portland's go-to strategy for years in getting capital intensive projects done (even though a URD for the neighborhood around PGE park is basically nonsensical).

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

You have stats on stadium operating cost per night?

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

This is all very disheartening. I really hope Leonard is just being a cock for the sake of it. Portland to MLS is incredibly important for the league going forward.

Just imagine...
The MLS Timbers in a freshly renovated PGE Park in downtown Portland - taking on the Sounders in an important regular season game. I think it would be a spectacle without many equals in American sports.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance?league=usa.1&year=2008&cc=5901

Team Overall Average
1 Los Angeles 390,762 26,050
2 Toronto FC 303,623 20,241
3 DC United 297,531 19,835
4 Houston 284,046 17,752

You add the few friendly games that each of these teams play every season + Superliga + Open Cup + CONCACAF Cup = At least 4 MLS clubs pushing 400,000

3 other teams (RSL, Red Bulls, and Chicago) pull over 275,000 a season. With Open Cup and Friendlies they should be able to pull numbers pushing 325,000.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

Portland Beavers (AAA) Avg. 5,607 Total. 392,490 Link

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

if they play 20 games at home, average 20,000 for attendance you have 400k. you know portland will sell out every single home game, irregardless of the competition. 15 or 16 home games for league schedule and then 4 friendlies (or the mls all star game, mls cup, or a USMNT game) and you get 400k for attendance. it just depends on exactly how many seats they decide to go with for the stadium remodel, 20k is what i would expect.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

And the key is, you're opening the stadium many fewer times to get about the same attendance. Minor league baseball/soccer are blowing a big chunk of their budgets just paying the cost of opening the stadium each time.

 

Re: Lawmakers Give Initial Approval To Soccer Stadium Financing In Portland

An MLS team won't draw more than the Beavers and USL Timbers combined, but it will be close. MLS tickets will cost more, so the overall revenue may be equivalent or higher, and that's what really counts.

The city, however, will lose the revenue that the Beavers generate. PGE Park is owned by the city, and they are able to tax tickets and concessions for any event at the city-owned venues. So even if the MLS team brings in an equivalent or higher amount of revenue, the city would still be tossing out the Beavers revenue. I've seen some people advocating for sharing because that would allow the city to keep both revenue streams. They don't want an either/or resolution.