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Discussion in 'Florida' started by chichi, Jan 5, 2012.
You want an MLS team in Ft. lauderdale? why? if you can have a team playing in MIAMI at FIU stadium.
Neither Tampa Bay nor Miami/Ft. Lauderdale are gonna get MLS if we can't put aside these kinds of issues.
Tampa and St. Pete soccer fans MUST travel to wherever the pro team in town plays or pro soccer here will die.
Same goes for our South Florida rivals. Put aside the squabbles over where best for a pro team to play, just go wherever they are and support it. This isn't hard.
Orlando doesn't have this problem and it shows.
FIU is an on-campus stadium (beer sales?), plus its further expansions are moving it away from the intimacy of an SSS. It's days of being a soccer hot spot have passed.
speedcake is right. Swallow your pride and get behind the Strikers. They're your only real hope.
Why? Easy. It's the only way American pro soccer will be supported in South Florida. Period. End of story. So many places I see posts like this. I think it's like three people in Dade who feel compelled to turn up their noses at the only chance of MLS EVER, read this here again my friend, EVER, will have even the smallest chance of coming here. At least here common sense and facts cannot be deleted like on facebook pages. It's awfully tough to convince people of a pipe dream like Miami supporting MLS when there are people putting up posts with factual information on why it won't work and the only chance is supporting what pro soccer we already have, namely the Strikers. Don Garber would be FAR more impressed with a 10,000 attendance average at Lockhart for the Strikers then he is with 70,000 for Barcelona or 50,000 for Mexico vs. Colombia. This is simple stuff people, follow along!
One thing Striker Likers and tampons can agree on! LOL A united fanbase is the only way pro soccer, at any level, is going to work in either market. We actually have an advantage over a lot of places in that we actually have what should be a very large metro area with lots of potential fans to work with. But if some people in those areas turn up their noses or are unwilling to drive 45 minutes, then the entire market is being hurt. If the only pro team in either of these cities fails, for any reason, it's very conceivable that pro soccer may never return to either one in any form. This is it people, maybe our last chance. Last year was a good one to set the stage, to build the foundation on. Now it's time to put up or shut up. Support what already exists! For heaven's sake stop with the pretend fantasyland unicorns and dragons BS. Miami is not getting pro soccer because anyone with enough money to pay for a team has to have enough brains to see it's never worked there. Ever. So if you truly want a local MLS team, there's only one way to make it happen. Come to Lockhart. Bring your families, your friends, your co-workers, your neighbors, and support what we got. In case you forgot, that's exactly what Don freakin' Garber said was the only way it was gonna happen, the only way MLS was going to look in our direction again. Fill up Lockhart. Show them that pro soccer can be supported here, in the only place it has ever been supported here, despite numerous tries elsewhere in the area. Knock off the MLS for Miami only BS and actually act like you really want MLS. It's the only chance. If you want it, you'll be at Lockhart April 7th. If you're not, just quietly go on your way and quit trying to make it more difficult than it already is.
Thanks to speedcake for allowing me to turn his post into a soapbox. LOL
Before the establishment of Orlando City, I drove to Tampa to see pro soccer (had great times at GSF, BTW).
The Ruckus is well represented by Seminole, Lake and Brevard County Residents. We have two members who drive down from Jacksonville every match.
The Iron Lion Firm is made up of diehards from Kissimmee to Daytona Beach.
Think REGIONAL. Home is where your toothbrush is and anywhere within an hour's drive.
My preference is Lockhart, but I had deposits on 4 season tix for the Miami expansion effort a few years ago that was going to play at FIU. I agree, get behind any effort. As it is now, we all (north of Fort Lauderdale) have to drive to Miami for most other sporting events.
First of all, HDC is on a college campus (do they sell beer?). Second, yes FIU stadium will be expanded but only to 23,500 by next season. i belive that the next step is to expand to 45,000 but that won't be for a long time. Third, why would i get behind the strikers, i live in F*cking Minnesota.
HDC is owned and controlled by Anschutz, not CSU-Dominguez Hills. Your argument is irrelevant. Nice try.
Then why are you concerning yourself with dividing a market?
And being in Minnesota, with its beer-selling drama with UM's TCF Bank Stadium, you already knew the previous. There's a reason most college-owned stadia have banned beer sales.
Please don't compare Orlando's situation to the very real problem we have in Tampa Bay and in South Florida regarding divided fan base. I get your point, the same as mine, support soccer no matter where it is.
But the "Tampa vs St. Pete" issue is serious business. Just ask the Rays or either of our two mayors.
Orlando drawing a few fans from the fringe doesn't relate to us at all and doesn't offer any kind of solution to what we are trying to solve.
They have agreements with the campus, like the capacity restrictions on non-MLS matches. Not sure about the beer.
Couldn't FIU and MLS do the same thing?
Maybe this is just talking over the problem. Maybe FIU's location just really sucks and it would never work.
To be honest I have no idea what the issue is, just passing through and read that bit about the HDC.
Prime, it doesn't matter if they would sell beer at FIU or not. It doesn't matter they have a plastic field. It doesn't matter what size the stadium is or isn't expanded to. No other attempt at pro soccer in Miami has ever worked. Ever. There is absolutely nothing to believe that has changed. I'll say it again and again - 70,000 for Barcelona and 50,000 for Mexico/Colombia mean exactly zip, zero, zilch in terms of forecasting support for an American pro soccer team in Dade County. 98% of those attendees wouldn't give MLS a second glance, considering it inferior to what they are used to following. And the rest of 305ers have shown very little desire to be consumers of American pro soccer.
The Strikers on the other hand have always drawn fairly well, in each of their incarnations, in comparison to the league they played in. There is not only an existing team that was second in their league in attendance last year, there is also a history and tradition that people north of the 305 at least still recognize and have interest in. Man I wish we could get clowns like the ones running the MLS Miami Bid facebook page to stop deleting posts on their wall that explain the facts of the past of pro soccer in South Florida, and just get with the freaking program already. All four or five of them. LOL But even without big support from Dade County, this team can draw the kind of fanbase to catch the attention of MLS, and more importantly, an investor who would like to buy in. There is huge opportunity to really build on what was started last year. It's going to take advertising and marketing of course, but the potential is definitely here.
4,000 is well? i think they would draw even better if they were in miami and in the new FIU stadium instead of the crappy Lockhart stadium. built in 59 renovated in 98.
You continue to show nothing resembling a clue about pro soccer in South Florida. 4,000 in their first year rebranded as the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers is light years beyond the what, 200 or so, that showed up to Miami FC games while they were playing in Dade. You're too busy turning up your nose at anything not Miami to recognize the facts. Renovated properly Lockhart could easily host an MLS side again, and at a far smaller price than building a SSS anywhere in South Florida, if you could even find a place anymore. And never mind about any tax dollars. But that doesn't matter. If you really want MLS so bad, you'll do what the MLS comissioner said to do - support the Strikers. He didn't say, uh, yeah, start a lame website and twitter page thumbing your nose at the rest of South Florida and the fanbase and team that already exist. Because yeah, then all four of you gotta be Miami or nothing for MLS fans will really have me on the hook!
uh yeah, 4k+ in the first year after re-branding is solid for any lower division soccer team.
Belittling that figure just shows your ignorance.
Ya, I'll be thrilled if the Rowdies average over 4k this year.
With the return of the Rowdies brand and presumably a decent push in the area to market it, you should be disappointed if they don't average 4k this year. Striker Likers will similarly be disappointed if we don't see growth over last year as well. We made it through year one. We're about to start year two with complete stability outside of Montreal's promotion and the Scorpions joining. This year every team has to make some strides forward now. Expansion is MUCH easier to sell when you can point to stability and growth in your league. We've all got to be out in our communities everywhere helping to promote our teams, be it actively, or at the very least passively even by just wearing team gear and being friendly when asked about it. We need every single butt we can get into seats this year.
I didn't read all of that but, if you're the Don would you want your new team 21 minutes away from Miami in FIU stadium which was built in 2008, or 39 minutes away from Miami in Lockhart stadium which was built in 1959 then renovated in 1998. There were crowds of 17,269 for games in the gold cup 2009 when neither the US or mexico were involved, and attendances of 18,057 for 2011 again with neither mexico or the US involved. if fans will go to Ft. Lauderdale then they will go to FIU. it doesn't matter if i know very little about soccer in south florida. i'm just looking at this from a reasonable perspective of the MLS. Marcelo Claure and FC Barcelona realized this when they made thier bid for an MLS franchise at FIU stadium
Then they sold (far) fewer than 1,000 season ticket deposits, and scared Barça off. The end. That's why Claure's bid died. Nobody outside of Miami FC's far-too-few fans cared.
I grew up in Miami, just minutes from the FIU campus. As a kid, half my West Kendall soccer team would pile into the back of my dad's pick up and make the drive to Lockhart to cheer on the original Strikers!
Now I live in West Palm Beach....and while it would be much easier for me if an MLS team was at Lockhart for me....i'd make the drive to FIU, downtown Miami (I just got a 20-game Marlins package in the new ballpark), or anywhere we got a team. Last season, I hit about 7 Strikers games and I will likely do the same this year.
I think most real soccer fans would agree.....just don't make the ridiculous mistake again of branding a Fort Lauderdale team "Miami".
The most important thing is an owner that "gets" South Florida soccer. The main difference between Miami FC and the Strikers is more than just a name and location...getting Tim Robbie involved....who knew exactly how to market the team....cannot be discounted as to why 2011 was such a big success. The team needs to be attractive to the various hispanic communities, the youth soccer parents/kids, and "old timers" who are nostalgic for the days of Ray, Nene, Jan, George, and Gerd!
If you don't read, and you aren't aware of the facts because you choose simply to ignore them, then you won't be convinced by anything resembling logic or reason, and you may as well run along to play with the unicorns over the rainbow. Good day sir.
See, now here's some one who gets it. Thank you nbace, +1 to you for the most part. The only thing I'll disagree on is that you are an exception rather than the rule I'd wager when it comes to Broward/Palm Beach residents willing to drive that far into Dade for pro sports. I've been a Cubs fan for 35+ years now, and attended some of their trips in every year, but no more. The Marlins made a conscious choice to eschew the support of Broward/Palm Beach residents by moving to downtown Miami and rename the team the Miami Marlins. They seem to feel this will result in a net gain in fan support in the long term based on new fans in southern Dade that will now come regularly I guess. Personally I disagree, but we'll see what the future holds.
Back to the Strikers/MLS in South Florida talk. The whole point of my argument is that there is already a brand that exists here in South Florida, with a history and tradition of success both on and off the field. The name and the brand is still recognizable throughout the tri-county area. The club took on the mantle last year, and succeeded in erasing the putrid experience of Miami FC from the minds of South Florida soccer fans. In it's place we have the right person running the show in Tim Robbie, a name synonymous with South Florida pro sports, and the Strikers imparticular. He knows how to run a team in this market, and last year it showed with a great inaugural campaign. Given time and resources, Mr. Robbie can make the Strikers a household brand in this entire market once again. I have no doubt.
Now, when it comes to MLS, and the limited number of spots for it that almost certainly remain, plus the increasingly more scrutinized expansion process that's in place, you tell me from a plain common sense logic which scenario sounds more reasonable for success to you. (Meaning everyone, not just nbace)
A) You start completely from scratch in a market (Miami) that has shown ZERO support for American pro soccer since it was first tried here in the mid 70's. Your only option for a stadium is a plastic football field on a college campus, one that is going to be expanded to a point where the meager crowds you will bring in will look absurd. And even if someone is willing to put out a boatload of cash and ignore all these facts, the only way you're going to get even semi-consistent support is if you can pack the team full of international superstars, and even then, they'll need to be playing for the championship pretty much every year. Then, maybe, you'll get a "good enough" consistent average attendance. But you can throw that all out the window under MLS's current rules. Nobody can field a team with that many superstar DP's. And all professional sports in this country, unlike the EPL, are designed to encourage parity, not domination by one or a handful of teams every single year.
B) You take an existing team, one with a history and tradition, a brand that people familiar with the history of pro soccer in this country know. A team that showed significant growth last year they are hoping to build on this year. A team with a person in charge that South Florida sports fans have known for years, but also one who knows how to market a team in this community, to get the right sponsors on board, and to really build the brand to its potential because he's been involved in pro sports in this market forever. A stadium that, yes, certainly is old, but given it already exists, it has a history of hosting this storied franchise, and could easily be upgraded at a fraction of the cost of building a brand new SSS (if you could even find a place in South Florida to build one anymore!) that you would own and control, that is centrally located in the tri-county market, not all the way to one end of it that's difficult to get to, with it's plastic field you'd be renting. Because the brand has a history that people either already connect with or can now get on board with, instead of starting from nothing, the need to win all the time isn't as crucial.
So you tell me. All other things being equal, which makes more sense in terms of logistics, economics, and just plain common sense if you've been paying attention for the last nearly 40 years? But there's still like 5 die hards in Miami who hold their hands over their ears yelling lalalalalalala while facts are given to them, and then say who cares, we're Miami, we're #1, we don't need anyone north of the city limits, and it will just somehow magically work. It makes me insane. And honestly, I don't even give a rats arse if the Strikers ever go to MLS. I'd be happy taking my family to see them in the NASL for the rest of my days. But for people who profess their love for American pro soccer to turn up their noses at the Strikers "because it's not Miami" is just completely assinine and reeks of idiocy.
S & M,
I have no problem with the Miami Marlins. For decades the Miami Marlins were a AAA team that Played at Miami / Bobby Maduro Stadium in one of the various AAA leagues that have existed for years. This gives that name a bit of history. It's nice to see that name in the majors. That should have been the name of the team from the beginning. The new ball park seems to be a gem, but it is in the wrong place. The Orange Bowl was misery to go to & the Marlins Stadium will be the same. Plus, the new uniforms, logos, etc are horrid.
The "MLS Miami Bid" has 2 people running it. One is a strong Striker Liker & full time ULTRA. The other is a former ULTRA that has a passionate hatred of Traffic Sports USA, has no interest in Div 2 & seems to be only interested in getting MLS back as the Miami Fusion.
I had a very nice conversation with them both at the ULTRAS Soccerthon at Kendall Soccer Park Sunday afternoon. Guess which one deletes any and all references to the Strikers being South Florida's team, that the domestic pro game has been a total and complete failure in Miami, and that Mr Garber had 3 points we had to meet and the most important one was to support your local team, the Strikers. He flat out told me he'd get rid of any comment I, or anyone else, posted that referred to the Strikers. When I got home I immediately "unliked" "MLS Miami Bid". I'd love to have MLS return, but not the way he dreams of it & I do not like his way of excluding anything he disagrees with.
Again, this is one person. A very persistent and determined person.