one very stupid 2nd yellow

Discussion in 'Referee' started by msilverstein47, May 20, 2013.

  1. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "But ref, I didn't remove my shirt!"
     
  2. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    Okay, I'll be first to bite.

    In what way is that NOT an offensive and/or insulting gesture.

    Red.
     
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  3. SA14mars

    SA14mars Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That had to be a fun write-up.
     
  4. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about it offends or insults you?
     
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  5. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    What gets him the caution is that he covered his head.

     
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  6. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Exactly.
    Time out for a non-violent war story. I was doing a high school boys' varsity game, dual with a USSF grade 5, everyone had expected the game to be a blowout win by the home team, only it wasn't, so the home players were getting frustrated and their coach was over the top frustrated. (A year or two later, I found out that he was "dating" the guys on his team, but that's another story.) At this point, the coach had already been excused to spend the rest of the game in the bus. :cool: One of his players gets a caution and my partner tells him, "Have a seat, son." The player then turns around and drops trow. Red card! The next day, my partner, working on his game report, calls me and asks "What do I put that under?" "Foul language, Roy. It doesn't have to be verbal." Home team finally won, even though they were playing two short by the end of the game. We refer to that game as "the night that Roy [my dual partner] got mooned."
     
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  7. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Didn't somebody in Italy do this recently too? At least they got the message about not taking their shirts off. Players will always look for a way around the rules. I've always wondered why players decide to take off their shirts in the first place. It seems like such an odd reaction to scoring a goal. And since by now everyone should know it's an automatic caution you'd think that would stop it.

    But frankly I've never understood why FIFA and the IFAB have their knickers in suck a twist over a player whipping off his shirt to celebrate. Even though I don't understand why players do it, I've never seen it as harming anyone. Unless they have some sort of inflammatory message underneath.
     
  8. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Has FIFA banned taking a Sharpie out of your sock and signing an autograph?

     
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  9. blacksun

    blacksun Member+

    Mar 30, 2006
    Seoul, Korea
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is the official statement from the IFAB (via the AYSO) in 2004:

    Law 12 – Fouls and Misconduct; New Decision 6
    The new decision reads as follows:
    A player who removes his jersey when celebrating agoal must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour.
    IFAB’s Reason:
    “The removal of the jersey after a goal has been scored is unnecessary and players must avoid such excessive displays of celebration.”
     
  10. Yale

    Yale Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    That's pretty much circular reasoning. It's unsporting because it's excessive, and it's excessive because it's unnecessary. So why is this particular means of celebration considered “unnecessary”, as opposed to all of the other ways a player may celebrate a goal (that are, presumably, “necessary”)? Well, because it's unsporting.
     
  11. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Here's another one to add to the list of unnecessary / excessive / unsporting goal celebrations. This one resulting in a direct expulsion.
    Russian league this past Sunday.
    Zenit St. Petersburg 2-1 Volga Nizhny Novgorod in injury time when Roman Shirokov, Zenit's captain, scores then salutes the away supporters.

    www.youtube.com/watch?&v=qJtQOROamV4
     
  12. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    looking on the bright side...at least it wasn't a nazi salute
     
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  13. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    The shirt identifies the player as the shirt has the required number on it. Take off the shirt, you lose the ability to identify the player.

    As to why? blame USWNT! - Ms. Chastain!
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Though the directive entered the Laws after Chastain in 1999, there was a mandatory instruction prior to her ever doing that, so it's a bit of a myth to totally blame her. Plus, she removed her shirt once the match--actually, the tournament--was over. I don't think any ref in the world is actually booking a player for removing their shirt after winning a tournament via kicks from the mark. At least I hope not.

    As to the original impetus, I've heard two that are plausible. One is that it's a worldwide game and partial nudity is highly frowned upon in certain areas or cultures of the world. Another is that, as the shirts were getting tighter and more form-fitting, they were becoming more difficult for players to get back on quickly once they were drenched in sweat; so, it was an issue of timewasting. Not sure how true either is, but those two points were definitely discussed around the time shirt removal became a yellow card. Also, the issue of political slogans or whatnot on undershirts was discussed at the time, but then that got clarified later.
     
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  15. JimEWrld

    JimEWrld Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I've been thinking of that and it just hit me... after she scored, wasn't the game over or was there another kick? If the game was over, couldn't she take her shirt off without any repercussions?
     
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  16. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    So if the game is over and she walks up to the goalie and punches her in the nose, or drops trow in front of you while saying you are a joke, etc etc, no repercussions? Same thing, our authority (and player responsibility) continue after the final whistle until we leave the area.
     
  17. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    So when international players exchange jerseys after a match they should be cautioned? I don't think it is that hard to differentiate between offensive or violent conduct after a game has been concluded, and celebration that is no longer held to the standard of excessive/not excessive because no potential delay is at issue.
     
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  18. Yale

    Yale Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    Oh, yeah? Had the players lined up for the post-game handshake? And what about the “Two, four, six, eight, who do we appreciate?” :D
     
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  19. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    ...his own supporters, actually.
     
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  20. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who was supposed to bring the oranges?
     
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  21. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    You are so way behind the times if you think oranges are adequate . . .
     
  22. BigManIntheMiddle

    Jan 10, 2013
    Inland Empire, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about the community bag o Watermelon?
     
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  23. Yale

    Yale Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    Never mind, I just looked at the picture and I guess the game pretty clearly was over at that point:

    chastain.jpg
     
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  24. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I had to glance twice...lol
     

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