Olympic Referee Appointments & Discussions [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    WOMEN'S GOLD MEDAL MATCH
    USA : Japan - STEINHAUS (GER)

    BRONZE MEDAL MATCH
    Canada : France - PALMQVIST (SWE)

    Interesting that FIFA ditched the confederation requirement for the Bronze medal match. If they can ditch it there, then why can't they ditch it elsewhere?

    Di Ioirio is 4th on the final and Alvarado is 4th on the Bronze playoff. Oddly, there is a Korean 5th official on the Bronze match, rather than one of the Mexican ARs.
     
  2. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I would say that the 'can't ditch' the same confederation rule elsewhere because of FIFA Referee Committee politics, a desire to appear fair to both teams and, for this assignment, frankly, you can't give away the tickets. It's a pretty meaningless game, like a 3rd place game at the World Cup. And this is Jenny's last international tournament, unfortunately.
     
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  3. lemma

    lemma Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    It's not that they ditched it - it's that they adopted Lemma's Lemma for major tournament appointments, stated here:

     
  4. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I know we consider a Silver medal first loser in the US, but a bronze medal game is not meaningless for most, unlike 3rd in the WC.
     
  5. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Actually it is probably more meaningful, because unlike the gold medal match, the loser goes home with nothing. 4th is the worst position to end up in IMO in any of the events.

    PH
     
  6. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    IIRC, DOGSO still applies even on a IFK.
     
  7. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the KOR Brazil IFK/PK/DOGSO ?:
    In this case, does it have to be DOGSO, or is this one of those very rare cases where there is a foul by the last defender, but that foul does not take away the OGSO? For the sake of argument, let's assume the boot is high and no contact is made. His honest attempt was to play the ball. Let's also assume the tackle was extremely dangerous, and must be punished. In this case, the dangerous nature of the play did not deny the OGSO. It was a foul, but the foul did not end the OGSO. Is that possible, or impossible?

    I can't stand when referees talk themselves out of what should be obvious red cards by finding loop holes. But had he punished the dangerous play with an IFK, I think a red card would have been unexpected, and he would have been talking himself INTO it by the position on the field. I grant I could be wrong on this though.
     
  8. THAREF

    THAREF New Member

    Apr 24, 2004
    I'm actually disappointed these assignments aren't reversed.

    It's unheard of (certainly for the women) to get the WWC final AND the subsequent OG gold medal match. Fine for Steinhaus, she'll be great (and an interesting mirror to Kari's doing the rematch of France-Sweden), but she's pretty young and will have many more opportunities.

    I say give the Gold Medal match to Palmqvist as a tribute, this is her last go-round. Any reason she would have been disqualified from it?

    You archivists might tell us if any men have refereed these same finals CONSECUTIVELY. Collina did Atlanta Olympics 96, but then 2002 WC rather than 98.

    Oh, and whatever happened to TAMMY OGSTON (nee Peacock) from Australia who refereed the 2007 WWC final? Probably retired at her peak to do other things (have a family?) and teach in FUTURO or whatever. Just wondering.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Collina is the only one to do it, period. Happened to look this up a few months ago when we were contemplating who might get this final:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/2012-olympic-referees.1931815/page-2#post-25516131

    It's probably worth pointing out, though, that the WWC and Women's Olympic events have always taken the top female referees in the world since 1999. That can't be said of the men, where often FIFA has experimented with a "second tier" of sorts at the Olympics, in order to figure out who they might bring to future World Cups. So there are definitely two different standards. Every possible women's Gold Medal referee will be at the WWC the previous year. But it's just not true that every possible men's World Cup referee will be at the Olympics two years prior.
     
  10. whiteball

    whiteball Member

    Apr 17, 2012
    Well, as Law5 pointed out earlier, Palmqvist had the final in 2004. That should be enough to disqualify her.
     
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  11. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Still no word on the Men's appointment.
     
  12. Englishref

    Englishref Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    London, England
    It is:

    Brazil vs Mexico (Gold Medal Match)
    Ref: Mark Clattenburg (ENG)
    AR1: Steve Child (ENG)
    AR2: Simon Beck (ENG)
    4O: Bakary Gassama (GAM)
    5O: Angesom Ogamariam (ERI)

    Japan vs South Korea (Bronze Medal Match)
    Ref: Ravshan Irmatov (UZB)
    AR1: Bakhadyr Kochkarov (KGZ)
    AR2: Abdukhamidullo Rasulov (UZB)
    4O: Wilmar Roldan (COL)
    5O: Humberto Clavijo (COL)

    Surprised by both appointments. Irmatov had the worst performance of anyone I've seen in the GBR vs Senegal match, missing both a penalty and RC, yet that seems to have been forgiven. Clatts also had a poor game in the QFs but maybe the home advantage has helped. Anyway, pleased for Clatts as it's a chance to redeem himself and make a marker for himself on the international stage.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Irmatov gets a game that he can get like 5 times per WC cycle (qualifying, Asian Cup, etc.). Makes no sense. The FIFA love affair with Irmatov is too much. Even if you think he's good... He's not that good.

    Good for Clattenburg. But if he nails this, it's going to be real interesting to see what happens for 2014. If Webb doesn't retire, I don't see how you FIFA can avoid sending them both to Brazil now. They've given Clattenburg an U20 semi and an Olympic final. He must be at the World Cup.
     
  14. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Irmatov, well let's see what happens in the third place game.

    Very disappointed to say the least. Perhaps this will be his swan song. I wonder what Collina sees in him. He lacks the match and man management skills that Collina possesses.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not going to be his swan song unless it somehow becomes a disaster. I fully expect him to go into Brazil as the favorite for the 2014 Final. He's going to have to really fall on his face to change that.

    Also, it's Busacca in charge at FIFA now. Collina oversees UEFA in a way similar to Hall at CONCACAF. I don't think Collina has any role at the Olympics, though I might be wrong about that. Either way, FIFA has liked Irmatov since well before either of those guys retired and became administrators.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fascinating goal to end the Women's Bronze match. Video on the NBC site and I'm sure elsewhere later, but the basics are that a ball falls to a Canadian (Matheson, #8) about 10 yards out and to the right of the goalkeeper, after a rebound. She's facing a near wide open net, with the only thing in her way being one of her own teammates, who is clearly in an offside position (closer to the goal line than all defenders).

    Matheson shoots the ball, but more or less directly at her teammate, who has to sprawl to get out of the way. I don't think the ball touched her. But it was very, very, very close. If that ball had gotten taken out of the net, and Canada lost, reading the Canadian media might have been borderline comical, because nobody would have understood why the call needed to be made.
     
  17. CanadaFTW

    CanadaFTW Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    I think part of it with Irmatov is that FIFA really needs top flight non EUFA non-CONMEBOL referee's. Irmatov is still likely by far the best referee from Asia, and is in need of elite level matches to continue to improve (matches that are few and far between in Asia). What FIFA really needs is to get some of the top non EUFA non-COMNEBOL referees to get matches in the various leagues, which is clearly the best way to improve as a referee for world cup matches.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nishimura, the Japanese referee, runs circles around Irmatov in my opinion. I firmly believe Nishimura could referee in the UCL with ease and has a case for being one of the best in the world.

    Of course, that wouldn't matter here, as he can't referee Japan. But if the goal at the WC is to push an Asian referee, FIFA has one that clearly deserves to be--it's just not Irmatov.
     
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  19. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I absolutely agree. Remember, Nishimura was the 4th on the final at the last world cup, and there was some discussion of him having the whistle, given what a remarkable tournament he had. I am a fan of Webb's, but I think Nishimura would have handled the final much better than Webb. He's also refereed the club world cup final, IIRC. He is, in my opinion, one of the best at managing players. He also is also a very calm, deliberate referee, which I always admire. And he smiles. I think I might have a little referee man crush . . .
     
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  20. colins1993

    colins1993 Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    WOW.
    To make this even more hairy -- to me, it looked like the CAN gal on the ground tried to help the ball in on it's way into the net but MISSED !
     
  21. CanadaFTW

    CanadaFTW Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    Obviously they are showing that goal all the time for Canada's Olympic coverage, and it is quite clear that she is trying to get out of the way. Regardless, she had terrible positioning throughout that sequence as she was perpetually in an off-side position.
     
  22. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Not Collina's decision. The FIFA Referee Committee makes these assignments and Collina is not a member.
     
  23. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is exactly what I was going to post. Nishimura is a tremendous referee, best in Asia and one of the best in the world. He proved his mettle in the World Cup of South Africa and again in the Olympic tournament.
     
  24. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I never said that Collina made the decision or was involved in the decision making for FIFA. I said, Collina stated he thought Irmatov was a tremendous referee and I just don't see it. Have never seen it.
     
  25. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    It looks like my hunch about the importance of the home country
    in the gold medal match was correct. It is amazing
    the way off-the-pitch criteria can decide these appointments.
    I guess that also applies for Irmatov's game.

    PH
     

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