D1 @Mr Martin and @deuteronomy -- Deportivo Vejete vs. A1 @Balerion (Team Balerion) This thread is for discussion and voting for the final of the USA draft. Voting will be open for 1 week and open to anyone who wants to vote(except for the two teams in this final). At the end of the week, the winning team will be crowned the champion. Below is each team.
We would like to present for your consideration what we believe to be the team which you should cast your vote for: Deportivo Vejetes (the old guys, we're talking about Mr Martin, here, of course ). Starting XI: Substitutes: 1. We believe we have a better team up the middle with: Striker: Jozy Altidore > Aron Johannson Sacha Kljesatan, Kyle Beckerman> Luis Gil, Ricardo Clark Central defenders: Matt Hedges/Carlos Bocanegra>Jeff Parke and (a talented but out of position) Andrew Farrell. We also believe our goalkeeper, Dan Kenney is more experienced and superior to the youthful but mistake prone Bill Hamid. In addition, our bench, which we are utilizing in this final (Dylan Remick in for Jeb Brovsky) is clearly superior to Balerion's. Vejete Bench: Josh Williams, Andrew Wenger, Sam Cronin, David Horst, Brovsky, Troy Perkins, Chris Pontius, Danny Cruz and Chris Rolfe. Bench of Team Balerion: Kronberg, Harvey, Anibaba, Hall, Warner, Allen, Pineda, Garcia, Gordon. Although we believe Team Balerion has an excellent team that our bench players, Troy Perkins, Josh Williams, David Horst and Sam Cronin would potentially start for his squad. 5 of our MLS players have scored so far this season Nguyen, McNamara (sitting in front of the Rookie of the Year group, atm), Matt Hedges(early candidate for defensive POY), Andrew Wenger and Kyle Beckerman (an early MVP candidate). Team Balerion has yet to score a goal in MLS this season. Johannsson, a talented player, relies upon service to his feet to score. We are not sure his midfield of Salinas, Davis and Gil would provide the through balls he needs to thrive. Salinas and Davis are mostly adept at crossing, and finishing off of headers is not exactly Bacon's sausage. On the other hand, we offer that Jozy Altidore (the USSF's 2013 player of the year) and Andrew Wooten would thrive, and perhaps even dominate, going up against the Jeff Parke/Andrew Farrell central defense. The versatility of our squad is shown as we have switched McNamara and Wooten to get better match ups. McNamara has played beautifully in midfield as a Rookie and has been one of the keys to their early season success with sharp his passing, feistiness, and a tireless engine. Wooten moves to his more natural striker role. We believe that Remick's speed will be a good matchup for Salinas and give us some nice overlapping width when McNamara tucks inside at times. We also believe the AJDLG matchup would be fine against Davis, two smart, skilled players, but neither are speed-burners. The match ups would lean toward us both offensively and defensively. Take a good look, I believe Team Balerion would have a difficult time scoring on Deportivo Vejetes. One of the ways of seeing who has the better team is to view how they performed on the way to the final. Deportivo Vejetes has outperformed Team Balerion: Semi-final: Vejetes 12-5 (and we believe we had the superior opponent). Balerion: 11-6 Quarter finals: Vejetes: 12-0 Balerion:14-2 group stage: Vejetes: won and advanced from the toughest group 10-5-4 Balerion: won an easier group, 14-3-2 In short, we believe Team Balerion has a nice collection of players but we believe we have a better overall team, are stronger up the spine and especially offer a superior bench. I think if you look objectively at the evidence, you will see Team Vejete is a better squad than Team Balerion.
@Balerion (Team Balerion): ------------------Jóhannsson--------- ------------Davis-----Gil-----Salinas ---------------Clark-------Jones----- Harrington --- Parke --- Farrell --- Myers ---------------------Hamid--------------- Bench: Kronberg, Harvey, Anibaba, Hall, Warner, Allen, Pineda, Garcia, Gordon
Not true. Gil and Clark each have a goal and an assist already. Even if it were true, it only highlights the fact that Johannsson has been scoring like mad in a better league. Also, Alan Gordon has scored in CCL. In any case, this is a great match-up between two very good teams, but all other things being similar, I think the team with the hot forward overcomes the team with the ice cold forwards. That can change in a hurry, of course.
Balerion. I like their attack better and the overall midfield is better too. I think they have the best middle 3. Vejete has the edge defensively though
I have liked Vejete each step of the way, but today I am going with Balerion. His midfield combined with AJ up top is dominant. Beckerman and Kljestan can hold their own, but can't outclass Clark, Jones, and Gil. Salinas and Myers will push an unproven McNamara back and really limit him in being effective offensively. Overall, this is a close matchup, but Balerion has the best team in this draft.
OK, I'm not going to go all "Eleven Bravo" on everyone in this thread... But this is hardly an open and shut advantage for Balerion's very fine team. Firstly, when Deuts and I discussed the 12 teams right after the draft was completed, we felt our team and Balerion's team were the two best. So, we are glad to be in the Final, and we appreciate all the other folks who also thought we were one of the top two and voted us through the knockout games. This has been a lot of fun, and I'm looking forward to the next phases, with trading, a supplemental draft, and another round of voting in July. It's been much more engaging than in past years. And @Harper916 has been awesome in setting up the matches and the polling threads. His very understanding wife also deserves... something. Anyway, on to comparing the teams: Deportivo Vejete vs Balerion Starting Lineups Kennedy > Hamid Boca > Parke Hedges > Farrell Myers = AJDLG (Myers better going forward, but AJDLG better defensively) Remick < Harrington (but maybe not for long) Beckerman > Clark Kljestan < Jones Nguyen = Salinas McNamara < Davis Wooten < Gil Altidore > Johannsson It's very, very close among the starters, but I think we win 5 to 4, with 2 draws in the XI. Obviously, the big debate will be Altidore vs Johannsson. Aron is on a 7 month scoring run. Altidore is on a crappy team in one of the top 4 leagues in the world. 8 months ago when Jozy played for the same lower-level AZ team Johannsson does now, Jozy was the scoring star just like Johannsson is now. Put Johannsson on Sunderland and Jozy on AZ and we all know how their scoring numbers would dramatically change. Jozy is still the US #1 striker and Aron is still the backup. Jozy at only age 24 is the 6th leading scorer for the USA all-time with 21 goals, while Aron at age 23 has one international goal. Altidore lead the USA with 8 international goals in 2013 and was voted US Male Player of the Year. Altidore remains > Johannsson. Then there are the respective benches: Perkins > Kronberg Horst > Anibaba Brovsky < Harvey Williams > Hall Cronin > Warner Rolfe > Pineda Cruz > Allen Pontius > Garcia Wenger = Gordon Balerion has a nice bench and better than most of the other 10 teams, but not as deep or accomplished as our bench. We win the bench comparison easily 7 to 1, with 1 draw.
Close for sure but I went with Deuts and Martin. Solid across the board though, well done to both of you!
I expect some heated debate now! this is the final! don't want the third place match to top the intensity of the championship This one is very close. I expect some debate to help sway my mind!!!
I think @Balerion should get votes deducted for not engaging in any debate at all!!! He's dragging down the Final by bunkering.
Hah! A busy week at work was followed by a bachelor party in Nashville. I'm still getting my bearings! Deportivo Vejete is a good team, but let's examine the variety of ways they'll fall short in this final! First, the attack. Altidore is a top player, but is badly out of form. This weekend, he started and failed to score for Sunderland's U21 team. Yes, it's come to this. I'll take an in-form Altidore over an in-form Johannsson, sure -- but that's not the debate we are having today. And after that, my advantage deepens. Nguyen is a solid player who is miscast out wide, where his strengths will be minimized and his weaknesses highlighted. He's too slow for that role and his passing is wasted. McNamara has been a pleasant surprise, which is why he is already in DV's XI, but is not yet close to a player who will push a team towards a championship in this competition. Wooten has thus far been no more than a marginal player at the 2BL level, a substitute for a below-average team in the league. He has a lot to prove. On my side, I have the red-hot Aron Johannsson who has scored 26 goals in all competitions this year. Luis Gil is one of US Soccer's rising stars who is now breaking into the USMNT. Shea Salinas has been an assist machine early in the season, while Brad Davis has been a elite performer in MLS for years. Kljestan/Beckerman is a very good midfield duo. In Clark/Jones, I feel that I have one of the few midfields who can overpower them. Defensively, Farrell is emerging as one of the best young talents in the US. He has played RB and CB this season. Myers is top RB in MLS, while Harrington and Parke are dependable veterans. Jordan Harvey and Jalil Anibaba provide solid depth here. Let's just say when even DV only gives themselves a 5-4 advantage (with two ties) among the starting XI through their very rose-colored glasses, it's looking good for my team. I'll grant that DV has a deeper bench, but it's not like I have an Eleven Bravo-caliber bench. The difference here isn't enough to push DV over the edge.
How can my player-by-player comparison be through "rose-colored glasses" when I've got our XI ahead of yours even though I agreed with several of your key points. The most obvious examples are that I agreed that you have the advantage in Gil > Wooten and Davis > McNamara. So, you simply restating what I already stated several days previously doesn't help your case at all. I also gave you Harrington > Remick and Jones > Kljestan. My glasses are not rose-colored, but very fair and realistic. This was my comparison: Kennedy > Hamid Boca > Parke Hedges > Farrell Myers = AJDLG (Myers better going forward, but AJDLG better defensively) Remick < Harrington (but maybe not for long) Beckerman > Clark Kljestan < Jones Nguyen = Salinas McNamara < Davis Wooten < Gil Altidore > Johannsson Meanwhile, you are completely misunderstanding how we are using Nguyen. In our Y-midfield, Nguyen is hardly a winger, but a pinched in right attacking mid who is free to attack from the center or the sides. This is exactly how Dempsey, Donovan, and Feilhaber were used very effectively in the prior World Cup cycle -- as left or right attacking mids, not wingers. We are not using Nguyen as a winger, so you analysis is wrong. I rated Nguyen = Salinas in terms of MLS-level attacking production, which is totally fair given their stats the last 2+ years. Since 2012, Nguyen has more goals (10 to 3) while Salenas has more assists (17 to 9), but overall production is the same). Their roles are different, but their value is similar. Plus, Nguyen is perfectly capable of attacking and scoring in that role, as demonstrated so nicely in his game winner 2 weeks ago: Lastly, Farrell only played one game as a CB and is now back at RB for the Revolution. He may someday be converted to CB, but right now you are using him out of position and he remains below our proven young CB, Matt Hedges. Maybe a little bit of rose-color there yourself? I think your team is great and belongs in the final. But head-to-head our XI is slightly better and you have conceded that our bench is better.
Apologies for being snarky here, but isn't it funny how Balerion's post fails to mention his goalkeeping and Mr Martin's reply fails to respond to Balerion's comments about Altidore? Still very good teams, of course. But since I voted for Balerion's team, I'll point out a couple of other things that could end up working against him. First is Gil, who is lined up in a key role and needs to show that he's ready for that. Second is Johannsson, who is in the opposite boat to Altidore -- if his national team performances aren't good, then people will fairly question whether he only scores goals when he gets a ton of service. In any case, a lot of players' stock will move between now and the end of the year, will be fun to revisit.
On Altidore vs Johannsson, I said my bit in post #8 and Balerion was presumably replying to my post #8 with his defense of Johannsson in post #13. Jozy has always been a lightning rod player among US fans, and Aron clearly gets some "new car smell" edge here among a segment of the fan base. We've probably each said our piece in that regard and there is no point in a circular debate. However, Balerion has indeed ignored the Hamid vs Kennedy comparison, which I've already argued favors us. I've already agreed that Gil > Wooten as an all-around player. But they are also quite different kinds of players. It's just that we preferred a 2-striker set while Balerion preferred the 5 mids and the solo striker, which results in a comparison of two very different types of players. We would rather Jozy play off another striker, because Jozy plays better with quick combos than as a classic target. And we like the idea of pressuring Balerion's mediocre CBs with both Jozy and Wooten, which I think is a favorable matchup for our team.
I wonder what this means for Deportivo Vejete... Also Altidore is having a more than awful season. Is it time to call in a backup?
Woooo! I've never "won" a US Draft before, or even come close. That being said, this is like winning the preseason NIT. It's nice, but it's not really what counts. The true respect goes to team that has the top team at the end of 2014. In that regard, we all have a long way to go!
congrats to Balerion. He was the one who I was the most worried about from the get go. I definitely think the World Cup format is the way to go from now on... I've had some horrible luck so far. 1. Holden, after making his way back up at Bolton, re-injured his ACL. Knocking him out for the season. 2. Opara, who was really breaking out....just had a season ending injury. 3. Ariyibi, was cracking the starting XI at Leeds until they canned their manager. 4. Zimmermann had an early season injury. I believe he's healthy now, but that definitely hurt. 5. Barklage and Delgado started the season on the bench...although, it looks like they may be turning things around. 6. Sapong has not produced, and a lot of his preseason hype...was just that. Hopefully things will turn around for him.