I certainly don't mean to suggest that you or Max did anything wrong, but I'd prefer to stick with the rule of limiting ourselves to players who are currently US eligible, not ones who may or may not become eligible in the future.
I don't think anyone did anything wrong. This is an interesting question and we should try to get it right, as it may come up again. Let's see if Max Opt chimes in and evaluates the information presented in the posts of the last hour. I'll abide by his ruling. I have messaged Neuwerld and asked him to wait on his 4th Round pick, leaving bmo180 still on the clock for now. Hopefully this gets cleared up soon. Again, bmo180 did nothing wrong, but he may be wise to think about an alternate pick just in case.
Seconded. This would open up the door to selecting anybody provisionally cap-tied to another country but who had not made it permanent by appearing in a WCQ or continental championship, and I'm not sure that's the way we want to go.
This official UEFA web site lists him as Islandic. http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2013/clubs/player=250027778/ As does this team site: http://www.agffodbold.dk/superligaen/truppen/aron-jóhannsson/
I remember drafting him either last year or year before last, but it was decided he was not eligible so I had to re-pick. Not sure if anything has changed.
Like Johansson, Hines would have to file one-time switch paperwork in order to play for the US. Neither player would be eligible for a game next week, for example.
There is obviously a need for me to chime in here. First, I need to say that Hararea is correct in noting that there is a question about whether Aron Johansson would need to file paperwork for a one-time switch with FIFA. The SoccerAmerica article says he does. But I'm not sure that is correct. I've checked the Iceland squads for recent youth tournaments (which qualify into the U20 championship). I can't find all the relevant data but from what I have found there is nothing that would rule him out under existing draft rules. Some of the players in question under current FIFA rules come from fairly obscure countries. Given the difficulties of checking these things out fully, my opinion is that we need to simplify and change the eligibility requirements for this draft. Yes, it would be better to have done this before the draft. But I think it is early enough in this draft that a mid course adjustment would not be a big problem. What I suggest is to determine eligibility based on two questions: 1) Is the player currently (lets make it as of January 1 of the year of the draft in question) eligible for a US passport? 2) Has the player played in a match that cap ties him to another country under current FIFA rules? Not provisionally cap ties him, but cap ties him period full stop. If the answer to 1) is yes and to 2) is no, then I think he should be eligible for the draft. I realize this is a change. I realize it will lead some teams to have to re-think their strategies a bit. But it will simplify these questions greatly. There are players out there who hold dual citizenships where the other country is even more obscure than Iceland with even more difficulty in tracking down full information on their youth national team squads. It would be better to simplify things. If the consensus is that I have abused my powers in rendering this judgment, please feel free to overturn it. After all, I'm serving at your pleasure with the goal of making the draft a smooth and enjoyable process. I suspect those who have been doing the draft for a few years will feel more strongly than the newbies since they have gotten used to a precedent. But I think it would make a lot of sense to make this change. I do wish that I could have thought through this and made a recommendation before the draft started. Of course, I did not realize at the time the complications involved. I would also make another recommendation. So far several drafters have asked my opinion on the eligibility of certain players. I don't think these opinions should be private exchanges just between me and the other poster. I would like to publish them here as I make them so everyone is on the same page informationally.
I have to think about Max Opt's suggestion on eligibility rules. This is only my second draft, and I have not been through past debates about the eligibility issue and have never thought about them in any detail. As to the last bit about discussing players publicly. The idea behind having a private chat with a draft neutral was so that if a team identified a player that no one else had thought of, their discovery would not be chosen by someone else first. If such discussions were to be made public, they surely should have been done before the draft began.
FWIW, the extent of Johannon's YNT career can be found here if you go down to "Matches of A. Johansson" and click on the National Team tab. He has played in all eight of Iceland's U21 qualifiers, most recently on September 10, 2012. I'll accept whatever the final ruling is, but just for the record.....Johannsson would absolutely need to file a one-time switch in order to play for the US.
The only written "rule" associated with the draft was the one I copied from last year and posted several times: 3. Only US eligible players who have not yet declared for another country or who have not been capped by another country. Rossi - Out. Subotic - Out e.g. The "not been capped by another country" is too vague. If it either of these options had been written it would have been clear in the case of Johannsson: a) Only US eligible players who have not yet declared for another country or who have not been capped in a senior match by another country. b) Only US eligible players who have not yet declared for another country or who have not been capped in a senior or youth match by another country.
Unfortunately, I don't think your proposal succeeds in simplifying things. Under the proposed rule change, the status of Miguel Ponce and Osvaldo Alonso would be much harder to figure out than anything I can remember from past drafts. Both are US citizens, but I suspect that the only way we'll know for sure whether they're currently cap-tied is if they appeal to Fifa and get a ruling. I'm also averse to changing the rules after the draft has started, and to including players who are potentially uninterested in representing the US. I appreciate Max volunteering to help coordinate things, but I'm definitely against the change.
At some point in a past draft, I remember posting lists of players who were and were not eligible to be drafted. This may work better than posting the exchanges, since it avoids revealing who's asking about which player.
I agree and was about to post something similar. With this change, guys like Rossi, Subotic, and Ponce would have been eligible in the past, when clearly they were not going to play for the US.
I thought Alonso was captied to Cuba? I think its only an issue for young guys who haven't decided which team to play for
Personally, as long as I've waited up until it's my turn to pick, I won't mind making my conversation about a players eligibility public. And I don't think that's a bad idea. But like a couple of others have said, it definitely should be a private conversation up until then.
If I understand correctly, a player provisionally cap-tied to one nation, but eligible for the 1-time switch to another nation, has to officially submit paperwork to apply for the switch, and FIFA reviews the request and makes an official declaration allowing or denying the switch. If Johannsson hasn't filed with FIFA, and if FIFA hasn't made an official ruling, then I'm not sure it is correct of us to assume those two steps will be taken successfully. After thinking about this for a couple of hours, I would prefer to stick with a strict interpretation. And now I'm off to my indoor soccer game for old farts. Good luck resolving this! I'll check in later after you guys have done all the heavy lifting!
My complaint about changing the ruling is that Johannsonn was part of my strategy since the beginning because of the ruling I got from Max, and I thought that the rules Mr Martin posted meant as long as a player isn't captied, which would make Aron eligible. I thought there was a decent chance Aron would fall to me in round 3 so I took Gatt instead of Gomez/Boyd.
Alonso played official matches for Cuba, but as a defector, he's no longer able to represent them. From what I recall, Fifa has rules that annul being cap-tied in cases similar to this one, but until they issue an official ruling, nobody knows whether these rules apply to him or not.
Would "could they play for us without filing paperwork with FIFA?" work as a potential litmus test of eligibility?
Its not a matter of people not knowing about him. It is whether he is eligible or not per draft rules... which looking back into the past it does not appear he is.. Jones and Fabian Johnson were not eligible until after they had filed the paperwork.. Johannson at this point has not filed and could NOT play for the USA
Right. That was kind of a joke. If it's true in the past these kind of players haven't been allowed and no one was robbed of a pick then I don't think him re-picking is absurd. (As in I would favor him not drafting AJ.) However I don't really mind either way. I don't think most of us do. Most importantly, I don't want MaxOpt's services to feel unwanted.
Yeah, Its not a big deal either way. At this point lets set the rule and move forward I would allow the Johansson pick to stand and then set the policy as a player has to be eligible TODAY to be drafted... but either way lets just keep this moving