Well It seems like J-Leagues official answer for this is rather that, the timeline for solving the stadium issue from the club side and municipally side doesnt fit. I could get the impression that one of them are therefore considering to use Matsumotos Alwin before Minami Nagano stadium extension is finished.
The point I was making was that comparing leagues across continents is a futile exercise even when you have a bit more to go on. After all, if we used the same one-player benchmark that you did I could observe that Ryo Miyaichi is looking about as effective in the Premiership as he did when he played in Japan's high school championships just over 1 year ago, so on that basis the Premiership is a shade better than a Japanese high school team ( **** ) In short, its a pointless exercise, or at best, an exercise in self-deluding snark. But if you insist on doing the pointless, then get in touch with Furtho. He has pretty in-depth knowledge of the non-league game in both countries. You still wont get a "good answer" but you might have a better benchmark than the one-uni-player perspective you are using now. . . . .
Yes, I think this sort of thing is a fool's errand, really, so I'll leave it to people who feel able to draw meaningful comparisons between dozens of leagues and thousands of players.
I must agree with Matsu an Furtho, and when someone succeeds in comparing, level of play, attendance etc..... theres the factor that Japanese regional clubs only plays around 14-18 league matches (OK they play alot of other tournaments matches if they qualify) so theres also the question that comes up, can the players cope in a longer season, an how will that effect on level of play?
I guess my initial question could have been phrased in another way, cause what I was more interested in knowing is at what level of professionalism these clubs find themselves. It's non-league football,and probably at most semi-professional, but there are different levels of semi-professional football too. Are the clubs (or players) aiming to one day be fully professionals, or is it just something they do cause its their hobby? Blackpecker Hakodate for example have as far as I know a very small following (except for on this board^^), and their training ground / match ground as well isnt much is it?
Blackpecker is a well-organised team and have been around since 1982, and it could possibily aim for J-League, especially considering that they come from a city which is bigger than Mito, Yamagata and Matsumoto (+ Sapporo is far enough from there...). Also, Hakodate has a facility (Chiyodai park) which is big enough to have some Consadole games played there. It already has about 7000 seats iirc. This if the team wasn't one of the weakest sides in the HSL, and wasn't relegated to the Donan block at the end of 2011. Still I would love to see some other team from Hokkaido in the professional rankings. After Vanraure Hachinohe does it, of course
Yeah, I lived there two years ago ( fantastic city by the way) , and talked to some ppl about it back then. It seemed most people didnt even know Blackpecker existed, and even the people in the soccer club at my university there had no interest in it. Consadole is not only Sapporo's team, its all of Hokkaido's team, which is why they play some of their home-matches in Hakodate and Muroran too. And even in Hakodate, you can find banners and ads with Consadole's logo or that features some of their players etc. So with no interest from the public (does anybody know how many actually sees their matches?) the chances of them one day playing in J.League seems to me like very slim. But I definitely agree with you that Hakodate is a big enough city to have its own professional team, and Hokkaido as well is more than big enough to have more than just 1 pro-team.
Well Guys there have been some wild rumours around when coming to football an Hakodate. There has been a small movement for some time to have a J-League team in Hakodate. The former Mayor has been against the plan, being a pro Ekiden supporter. However new winds has blown after the new mayor stepped in, he stating he oficially supports a J-League team in Hakodate. As you guys just discussed Blackpecker just got relegated. But theres some rumours around LEOC (yes the Yokohama FC sponsor). Maybe some of you has noticed that Kazu got an contract with Futsal F-League team Espolada Sapporo? This happened because Leoc sponsors both Yokohama FC and Espolada. The thing is LEOC originally comes from Hokkaido, and they are building a big facility in Hakodate. Aparently being a bit unhappy with Yokohama FC and wanting to commemorate their retake of Hokkaido, they have uttered interest in help starting a club in Hakodate. Aparently the plan was not to build Blackpecker up but to hijack a JFL club and move it to Hakodate. This was rumoured to either be. Tochigi UVA, Arte Takasaki or Fujieda MYFC. Whats interesting is actually that we know that Arte Takasaki has mentioned that they were negotiating in move the club over to a new organisation. Maybe this could have been the Hakodate link but maybe we will never find out. Ofcourse the big question if how reastic is this rumour and will it ever happen? Aparently the Idea was also that Blackpecker would be incorporated somehow in the organisation on grasroot level.
One point on another Hokkaido team - this is the first season that Consadole Sapporo won't be using any stadiums other than the Dome or Atsubetsu, because the other stadiums currently don't meet J-League criteria. So they'll have to fix that before any other teams show up there.
Dont the stadiums meeting the J2 criteria but not the J1? I think Sapporos promotion to J1 is the reason why they dont play at Hakodate or Muroran this year. I believe they would play at them if back in J2. Again anybody knowing what it would take with a team in Asahikawa? afterall its a much bigger city than Hakodate (although Hakodate seems more vibrant and international).
I'm pretty sure Asahikawa would need a dome because of all the snow they get. Maybe they already have one??
So with the new promotion relegation from JFL to J2 being installed this year Kamatamare Sanuki are the only real chance to go up... but will they get the first or second place in the JFL that they need to to have a chance? Sagawa, Honda, Nagano etc will be tough to beat as per usual. I would love to see the team go up, but at who's expense?? If Gifu does again perform as shiite as they did last year they have a great chance to finsh last again... however the saddest thing is, if Gifu get relegated, the club will most likely disband.. and I wonder how clubs like Mito or Machida would fear if they were relegated.
Sanuki will definately not be promoted this season, its obvious for me, that this seasons strict rules for promotion to J2 exist to ensure new clubs as Machida, Matsumoto and Tottori or unstable clubs like Gifu, Mito or Ehime to get relegated. In this way J-League can say to Nagasaki and Sanuki, you still have the chance to get up and to the just mentioned J2 clubs relax you wont go down. I am sure that this criteria will be loosened in 1-2 seasons though. And heres the interesting part coming in. Flugels did disband back in 1999 instead of getting relegated, because noone at that time could imagine that J2 would be OK. J(1) was were pro football was played and everything underneath was hell........ But after some years J2 had its own life and clubs lived with it. So I just think that from now on clubs must unerstand that JFL is the basis of the clubs everything over JFL (J2 and J1) will be a privilige and in theory if this system exists for another 100 years all clubs will have a period going down to JFL.
I hope you're right, but there are definitely alot of people round here pooping their pants Financially, while the JFL is like it is now, if Gifu did get relegated then the amount of money that they are in debt - doubled with the amount of money that they wouldn't recieve from being in the J2 from the JFA - would most likely kill them. But it will be interesting to see how it pans out if and when teams actually start getting relegated.
It's harsh to say but I would actually like to see 1/2 J2 teams getting relegated and then disbanding. Not that I particularly hate anyone, it's just that they would probably set an example for other teams to be careful in their expenses and not waste money...
Well I think just cutting the expenses wont make a good football business. Remember what they said in Kofu some years ago its not enough to cut expenses. The clubs simply need to make money in other ways. More money for TV rights (maybe split the TV rights more that seems to be the tendency in midsize european leagues atm and gives more money). Try to buy their stadiums out and own them themselves. When owning them controlling the sales of food and drinks so the clubs earn more, this can be done with rebuilding the stadiums and putting all the food and drinking amenities inside the stadium. Rebuild the stadiums with conference rooms, VIP lodges, Hotels, restaurants (I have in Denmark seen a Michelin star restaurant on a stadium) and Office spaces. Earn money everyday from people using the amenities (ex. the office spaces rented out for companies). Then rebuilded stadiums cost money to hold so using this argument to rise the ticket prices at stadiums.
Often smaller teams can use municipal stadiums for basically nothing ANDkeep basically all money from sales. The city itself is considered a sponsor in that case.
I've always been wandering about the clubs actually payed those really cheap rental prices on the stadiums webpages. But the price for a J2 match must be higher than if it was a JFL match or???? In any circumstances, still even stadium rental is extremely cheap, J2 clubs would stand much more strongly if the clubs has much better income streams so the points I mentioned before Is still a must I think.
As something which perhaps helps to illustrate your point there was a campaign at Avispa yesterday where the team had had a curry competition at pre-season and new signing Omata made the best curry so the club were selling his curry at the game. A nice idea all round really, except they hadn't anticipated demand and the curry was totally sold out within 15 minutes; 2 hours 15 before kick-off and at a time when only season ticket holders were allowed into the stadium. They could have potentially made quite a bit of cash on it, surely enough to pay Omata's wages at least.
Yes exactly on this point Japanese clubs are back in the stone age compared to european clubs an I dont mean big Premier League or Bundesliga clubs, but I mean small League2 or Conference clubs, clubs from smaller european countries as Denmark, Norway, Switzerland etc.
Aparently Blau Blitz Akita will afterall seek J-League Associated membership during this month. They also will get a new CEO former Akita player Iwase will be new CEO only 30 years. While not being the first CEO thats former player, I think its first time among the League Clubs (J-league and JFL) that a former player becomes CEO of his former club (I dont believe Tsukano of Gainare ever played for them, although not sure).
A few Regional Leagues have announced their 2012 schedules: The Hokushinetsu League starts on 8th April and ends on 29th July. The Kansai League starts on 14th April and ends on 8th October. The Kanto League starts on 7th April and ends on 7th October. The Kyushu League starts on 7th April and ends on 23rd September. Still no official word from Tohoku, although Vanraure Hachinohe have indicated that they will be playing in Division 2 (North).
Also JFL started this sunday.... the results for 1. round were: Sagawa Shiga vs Hoyo Oita 2-1 Nagano Parceiro vs Fujieda MYFC 4-0 V Varen Nagasaki vs YSCC 2-1 Honda FC vs Sony Sendai 2-0 Hondalock vs Yokogawa Musashino 2-3 FC Ryukyu vs Blaublitz Akita 0-1 Tochigi UVA vs MIO Shiga 0-3 Kamatamare Sanuki vs Sagawa Printing 1-0 Kanazawa sitting over since they were going to meet folded Arte Takasaki.
Shit, didn't realise old Arte were gone... Good solid starts from Sagawa and nagano. Im relying on them to keep Kamatamare at bay this year!(Unless Yokohama FC finishes last)
Yes I liked Arte too. Dont worry if you look at how the clubs in JFL has strenghtened Sagawa has lossed noone, and Nagano has got a extremely strenghtened team. Those 2 will 100% take first and 2 place at JFL, on paper both teams look frighting. Yokohama FC should be going down for showing disrespect against the beautifull game in keeping signing contract with Kazu.