Official 2012 J2 Thread [R]

And 2012 table predictions for what it matters:

1 JEF Chiba
2 Ventforet Kofu
3 Tokushima Vortis
4 Tokyo Verdy
5 Kyoto Sanga
6 Montedio Yamagata
7 Tochigi SC
8 Shonan Bellmare
9 Gillavantz Kitakyuushuu
10 Roasso Kumamoto
11 Avispa Fukuoka
12 Oita Trinita
13 Kataller Toyama
14 Mito Hollyhock
15 Gainare Tottori
16 Matsumoto Yamaga
17 Kusatsu Thespa
18 Fagiano Okayama
19 Ehime FC
20 Yokohama FC
21 FC Gifu
22 Machida Zelvia

But what do i know

Good to see you, Richy.

QUOTE]
Speaking about Gifu, I was surprised to see them increase their average attendance by 1000 ( from 3000 to 4000) last year, despite having the most horrible of seasons. You must have some loyal fans=)

About who will go down I'm a bit surprised that everyone seems to rate Machida as weaker than Matsumoto. Can't really see MAtsumoto having brought in any major replacements, while Machida have done more to strengthen their team. And they also got Ossie Ardiles as manager[/QUOTE]

Gifu played at Nagaragawa Medou in 2010 which only had 3000 in capacity, moving back to Nagaragawa Memorial just made it possible for those fans that could not get in at Medou to have a seat.

Gifu played at Nagaragawa Medou in 2010 which only had 3000 in capacity, moving back to Nagaragawa Memorial just made it possible for those fans that could not get in at Medou to have a seat.[/QUOTE]

Ohh I see, thanks=)

Hey guys, thanks for the welcome back
I've always been around but now my girlfriends moved in so I need to escape to the forum every now and then!
Not enough time for the blog at the moment.

Anyway, Gifu crowds haven't been that good really, and we only drew 2800 against Iwata this year, compared to 5600 odd last year... so unless the team can continue with a few good results fan numbers will probably go down as the non hardcore fans will head to Nagoya to see Granypuss

As for Matsumoto over Machida... well it's really just speculation. I went and watched Machida last year at home and the set up had a real amateur feel to it. Whereas Matsumoto has all the infrastructure and support in place nicely. Not that that makes a team, case and point Urawa Reds - but it's just a feeling.

Girlfriends?! Lucky guy!^^

Any mans dream though sometimes I think one is more than I want (they are talking too much)

Well I definately also see Matsumoto as a club of the future and definately with Okayama an important club to strenghten the level of J2, however this season they seem week on the field.

It's interesting to see Fagiano registers nearly 50 players every year since they are in the J. League, and all in all this just proves that quality is more important than quantity at most of the time.

They aren't going to stay in the roster for too long... so quantity is going to drop closer to quality pretty soon
http://www.the-rising-sun-news.com/news/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2956

These 40-50 registers are both for the Fagiano J2 team and for the reserves in the regional league (Fagiano Next) they just runs the club a bit differently than the other clubs. I dont understand why so many dislikes Fagiano, its an extremely well run club, good economy, doing better and better on the field each year, top management and many fans. Among many J2 followers the CEO of Fagiano Kimura is called the super CEO and because he is an former managing director at Goldman-Sachs he has different ways to run the club than other J League CEO's. I am not saying he is a expert in understanding the play on the field, but his management skills and business skill is topclass.

Having lived in Gifu for a year I have a bit of a soft sopt for them, and was thinking that maybe with Nagoya playing more matches in Toyota it might help Gifu get some bigger crowds.
Could easily end up being quicker to get to Gifu than it could to Toyota Stadium.

In the end this discussion is a bit funny because we all now that if japanese clubs would be better to earn money, the clubs wouldnt be in danger of being disbanded just because they are relegated to JFL. Its like everybody relies too much on the concept of J-league and not on the clubs own ability to earn more money.

Well said! The whole Fagiano Next thing can be discussed and might not be the best model to run a club, but isn't it more or less the same as having a number 2 club? Like Barcelona B or JEF United Reserves?

Cause it means they got a larger number of players to choose from, and although I dont know which level Fagiano Next currently plays at, I guess performing well at Next can serve as a stepping stone to bigger things ( in this case Fagiano Okayama). And If i remember correctly, they did promote a few players from the Next-team midway through last season.

More or less every professional club in Norway is run like this, so I don't think its that's odd, unless the concept Fagiano is using is totally different from the one we have here.

I don't like their playing style much, but I think its a club with a bright future, with their big group of fans and and as you say well-ran head-office.

The point is that JEF doesnt promote all the JEF reserves players to the top team for three weeks, just to make second-rate players feel important. Neither does Tokushima Vortis/Tokushima Vortis Second. When players from these second teams play well enough to earn an appearance at least on the JEF/Vortis bench, then they get to call themselves "pros". The ones who never come close to getting into the first team remain amateurs and thats what they should call themselves.

There are hundreds . . . . no, actually, there are thousands of players in Japan who are better at football than some of the guys whose pictures made it into the Fagiano section of this year's Meikan, yet they will probably play for 10-15 years as amateurs and never be able to call themselves anything different. This is what makes Fagiano's policy objectionable. If JEF and Vortis started doing the same thing every year, pretty soon the job of maintaining databases and printing the annual Meikan would become an impossible task.

Fagiano knows exactly what they are doing with this policy. They are using a loophole to help them attract players to the lower end of their team with the "glory" of a spot in the annual Meikan. Some people might call this "clever marketing" or "smart management", but I call it as I see it - a cheap, morally dubious and cynical bit of corporatchik exploitation. And the similarly cheap and morally dubious way they got their mascot was dirty enough for the J.League to ban its use on their site. If Fagiano is so well-run and its management policies so top-class, why is it being punished by the J.League itself?

I hadn't even realised this about the Fagiano page; it does seem like a bit of a cheap trick to reward average players who are unlikely to ever be good enough to be more than fringe J2 players!

The flip side is I wonder if the players who are better mind getting less page space. In the digest I have Fagiano get the same number of pages as everyone else, which means all but 4 of their players get 1/16th of a page with no career stats.
I'm much happier as an Avispa fan that I can see the career stats and star graph for 18 of the first team, with each player getting 1/8th of a page rather than some obscure reerve player who isn't ever going to get a first team game.
Maybe a small thing, but having more space must be a bit of an ego trip for better players, and they are the ones who will make the club better.

Perhaps Fagiano's management didn't think in such a sophisticated manner, what they might have in mind probably is to save cost by bringing in a dozen of unknown youngsters every season to fill up the Fagi Next's roster.

Abe Takuma is a baller, either Verdy go up or he leaves for a J1 team I think.

Avispa looking really impressive early, Jogo showed some great jump ability to head this Kim Min Jae cross in the net.

beautiful cross,great athletism and perfect timing for Jogo,but Roasso are defending so poorly

no one's watching JEF?
i can't find any stream...

Yokohama FC wasn't that bad despite the loss. I don't see any major issue at the offensive half - Okubo was really impressive compared to his first stint at Fulie. What Kishino needs to work on is how to cope with counter attacks. They were caught twice today and it costed their game.

losing vs Mito is never a good sign ...

I wanted to watch them, no stream.

Saw Matsumoto Yamamga against Verdy. Great travelling support for their first J-League game. Was a tough ask for them, not disgraced yet Verdy were on top for most of it.

i saw the last 20 minutes after they switched from Kofu.

a solid 2-0 win for Chiba with Yoshihito Fujita on top form after quitting Yokohama FC...
Also Jef defence looked quite stable,but i have still in mind the tragedy of 2011 last games and improving from THAT is quite inevitable,and Yamagata wasn't really on top of his game for what i could see.