And with baseball, the majority of the time that player would be the shortstop. (Unless he was pitching that day or for whatever reason he liked to gear up to be the catcher.)
If the regional pools were training together more often, this would be a great vehicle to bring people in and out and see how they do.
I would think that the scouting would be at the State level, not Regional. Make sure the state teams don't miss giving a player a chance to make the state team. At some point,we just have to make the State ODP selections work, and the regional people have to rely on that. Trying to send scouts all over Region IV would be quite a task.
I wouldn't really call it a program per se. By and large its the national staff coaches (Dickey and Lopez) showing up to games in their respective genders to look at players. Occassionally an age group HC gets to some games but the term program is a bit of a stretch IMO.
WOW. This is all very discouraging. As much as I'd like for my children to play and love the sport as I do, it seems that the professionalizing (if that's indeed a word) of youth sport is almost certain to demand a significant compromise of either their childhood or their chance to excel. Is it still possible to have a player "apprentice" with a local adult team, or has that day passed forever?
Saw something interesting at the Jefferson Cup last month, I went to a U/16 game where both of the center mids for one team are highly regarded regional and occasionally national pool players. I wanted to see them work together in a game setting. To my surprise their team lost and they were pretty much dominated throughout the game by the two center mids from the opposing team. From what I could learn neither of these opposing players are regional level players. I would hope that someone from the ODP program was watching this game (top division at Jefferson Cup so it deserved to be watched) and took note of the two apparently unrecognized players to get them into the program? If ODP is not doing this we are lacking a vital area to identify the top players for our national program.
ODP is a cancer run amok within the U.S. soccer community. All it does is justify coaching positions and identify kids whose parents have money to burn. How many professinal soccer players has the ODP system turned out? College players, yes, quite a few. But pro's? Do any of the major soccer countries have anything similar to ODP? Don't think so. Many ODP coaches are lazy. They won't travel to scout local Hispanic and other ethnic leagues, prefering instead to sponsor a regional tournament, at considerable cost to players parents, and scout those players who show. I've read in articles where there are people who scout for European teams in the U.S. who have a better idea where the best players are in the U.S. than many USSSF coaches. Now that's sad.
Please don't start the "local Hispanic and other ethnic leagues are where all the good players are" argument. It's been discussed previously.
Regarding ODP players who are playing in the pros... from Region 1 web site.. quite a few...coaches too. http://www.region1.com/BoysODP/proplayers.htm Also, to group all state's or region's ODP pregrams into one opinion is difficult. Some states do a fantastic job of trying to get the best players identified and out. Others don't. Some have scouting networks , some don't some have scholarshios so money does not become an issue and some don't. some do a good job of going beyomd just identification and provide quality coaching and playing opportunities (foreign tours for example) and some don't. Its a pretty good program overall when a state does it right - and it can compliment the work that clubs do with their players.
The problem with this is that the kids live where they live. To dismiss ODP's failings like this hurts the kids who live in the states who don't "do it right". The program should be consistent throughout.
I have a question....how exactly are players selected to the regional pool? My son told me that the state coach "recommends" his top two or three players. He was told this by two of his teammates who had previously made the regional team.
Oops! That was supposed to be a secret! Officially, they are evaluated by numerous evaluators at the region camp.
Oh, I know they are evaluated at camp; this is my son's third year. He was told the other night that the state team coaches recommend two or three kids from each team. I know last year there was an evaluator at the Rider tourney and he talking with the state team coaches about specific boys and spoke with my son after the game. Just curious about that part of it.
It's not a secret at all. State coaches are asked who, in their opnion, are their top players. On a good team the number can easily exceed two or three players. That gives regional staff a starting point but I've seen plenty of players not mentioned by their state coach get in pools and even on the regional team. Believe it or not, most of us are not the incarnation of pure evil.
How it works varies somewhat based on the evaluators at Regional Camp and the Regional Camp staff. Suffice it to say some Regional Coaches are more aggressive in searching out talent; others are more willing to defer to State Team coaches. State Team coaches will submit evaluations of their players to the Regional Coaching staff, and these evaluations will highlight the players the State Team coaches believe are better. There will be coaches' meetings where the State Team Coaches and Regional Coaches will gather and discuss the day's games, etc. At these meetings and at other times during the gay the State Team coaches, if they are good, lobby for their players. If the State Team coach is viewed as knowledgeable this lobbying can be helpful to a player. If he is viewed as less than what he should be, his lobbying can actually hurt (though usually such coaches rarely lobby or do much of anything else). During the camp the Regional Coaches may see other players they like, but in most cases these will still be on the starting line up for it is the starting 11 that will be seen in games. The first five to ten minutes are the time to make an impression. After that the Regional evaluators are often moving to other games to see the start of the second half elsewhere.
Thank you for that info. My son was very pleased when he heard this as his coach singled he and two others out and spoke to them about getting ready for the regional camp.
At most tryouts, the evaluators will quickly weed out who SHOULD be there and who SHOULDN'T be there. Once they've done that, they'll concentrate on the middle or bubble players of which there are many. First Impressions!
ODP is a rigged game. If a kid doesn't play for the right club team or for a well networked trainer, they don't have a chance. Also their method of picking talent is flawed. They always pick the most physically impressive looking kids that they can find. If a kid hasn't hit his growing spurt at the right time, he will never get a fair look. They truly do have big on the brain. We have friends that have an extremely gifted youth player. The kind of kid thats not just a track star posing as a soccer player. They asked how their boy could get looked at. The answers were less than candid and in fact they were led to believe that he had already been scouted. When asked who scouted him, the silence was deafening. This "scouting" had never taken place or if it had, the name of the scout was not forth coming, like it was some secret handshake crap, which I suspect is closer to the truth than not. I am a youth coach so I got in touch with the Houston Dynamo and told him about this kid. After film and a camp, He is now making preparations to begin working in their youth system. Thank God, the Dynamo were honest and a far superior judge of talent. As you can probably tell this kid is one of the ones who haven't hit their growing spurt yet, but the Dynamo saw a soccer player not a model. I coach U-17 girls soccer. ODP has missed out on 2 of my girls. Not living in a large metropolitan area puts our kids at a real disadvantage. Same story as above. By the way, the 2 girls on my team that never got a look from ODP, are being recruited by Rice and Notre Dame, not bad for 2 kids from the trailer parks.
What one coach will not like, another coach might love. I know a Regional ODP starter who is considered a joke of a player by an MLS coach, who prefers a couple of kids who were cut before they even got to State Camp. Maybe ODP is right and the coach is wrong, or maybe not. Since we don't know, it's good to make the base of pyramid very broad.
My first post was about the underhanded political nature of ODP selection. This one is about the money. It is a total cash cow for the state association and for ODP in particular. It is expensive to the point over being exclusive not inclusive. Period. If a kid is in a bad play financially, tough. But as long as they have got these little Barbie's and GI Joe's lining up to give them their parents money, ODP will take it in the most shameful fashion. QUESTION? How much does it really take to run the program? What ever it is, ask ODP, it's not enough. Where is Geraldo or 60 Minutes when we need them.
LJ, Every State is different and even within States there are differences. To paint all ODP with your brush is wrong. It is like a woman whose husband cheated on her, declaring all men to be cheats and liars. Hardly valid or informative over all. No system is perfect. What have you done to change things other than complain? Have you volunteered to be in South Texas ODP or on a State ODP Committee? If not, why not? If you have and were rejected then your argument has more merit. The fact that some players did not make a State Select Team is also not evidence of a flawed system. It is only evidence if the players who did not make the team were inferior. What many do not understand, including many coaches, is that there are a lot of great players who do not make the selection. Some later develop into great players. But, at the time of selection that year for that State Team, they were not so great and others showed better talent and greater potential. The system is not perfect. You could eliminate all possible sources of bias and there would still be disputes about which player is better. If you doubt thiis simply read the comments on the US Men's forum and how various posters evaluate talent. Just take Landon Donovan as an example. Rather than whine, tell us how you would fix the system and then pay for that fix. If you cannot do that, your post is of little value.
LJ, As to cost, you are now full of it. As a 501(c)(3) the costs of running South Texas are open to all. Look, do not whine. If you coach you should have a basic idea of what it costs. For residential camps add in the cost of securing board and rooms. Some States do use ODP as a revenue source. Most lose money on it. My State loses money. Earlier I this topic I posted what it would cost to have full time coaches scouting players. Given the size of South Texas, your costs for travel and time would be higher. How do you afford to fund the program yo want without driving the poorer players away? Offer a viable solution.
I agree with you JohnR about the wide base, believe me. Talent is in the eye of the beholder and everyone with talent should get a fair look. What is so damned maddening is the underhanded manner in which ODP flat lied to a hard working family from my home town. I have to pay these ridiculous Association fees and I don't appreciate people supposedly working for us lying to us. Dishonesty has no place in the process and I think that saying that this family was lied to is a fair statement.