The boys on the younger age were the same at the state level. But regional camp was different. At regional camp for the '93s this year, the boys were formed into State teams organized by birthdate, and the Regional staff selected only from the Older squads when forming the Regional Pool. I believe that the final total was Olders 39, Youngers 0. That might be off by a player or two, no more.
Interesting responses. In Oregon, the response of parents I get is much the same. It is great for college identification, however it offers little in the way of development as a player except in one facet. It teaches you to be selfish, hog the ball, and generally piss off all your team mates. I guess this is okay for alot of posters here looking for that player with flair.(In my opinion you can have all the "flair" players you want, there not worth it. See Terell Owens,Stephon Marbury and Allen Iverson as examples of flair) That has been my experience in talking with parents who have had kids try out over the years. And before anyone starts, no I do not have a kid that got passed over, both my kids are too young. In Oregon, I believe it is not so much a money issue as it is a geographic issue as all practices are held in the northern part of the state and kids from down south are reluctant to drive 4 hours for week-end practices. The general feeling among coaches I talk to is if your goal is to play high level college soccer then ODP is for you. If however, your goal as a parent is to let your kid have fun playing their game and develop a life-long passion for the sport then maybe stick to club and high school.
That's unfortunate. I'm not exactly sure what the numbers are on the girls side, but having been with that age group for four years I know there there are at least a handful of younger players selected each year for the regional pool.
THIS is what is WRONG with ODP and these selection processes! This post hits the nail right on the head! Both examples you gave placed players in a spot more deserving of someone else-- and this was done because as you state directly that somehow these two kids were connected to ODP through some political means rather than their skill. This is totally inappropriate and unfair to those kids who work their tails off to gain the skills necessary but don't make it. What about the girl who was a great starter on a great team but never got to play in front of the Regional Staff because of that "average starter on a pretty good team"? Great for the one kids ego-- very bad for the State, Region, and National teams. AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Got me going again..........what is wrong with this world? Why can't parents/politics stay OUT of these issues. FARMBOY-- VERY POOR ADVICE IN MY OPINION. What good does it do anyone to send or place a kid on a team who does not belong? All it does is make the kid/parent have a false sense of where his/her skills fit in, and take away opportunities from those more deserving. Don't be part of the problem, take my advice.....stay out of it and let your kids skills win a spot if deserving.
I have two boys who have been in the ODP program in Massachusetts & Super-Y. Older son - Born later in the year and a "younger" player on the team. First year, had a great tryout. Didn't make the team. Second year , had okay tryout and made the team. Third year, good tryout, didn't make it. Fourth year, okay tryout, made the team and started all the games. It depends each year on whom tries out and if the player is having a great game while the coach is watching. On his first year, there were two inner city players who were on "scholarship." Massachusetts allows players to sell ads to subsidize the cost of the program. The training site was a pain to get to and was described as "equally inconvenient for all." The drive to practice was 1.5-2 hours one way. Coaching was good on the first go round and very good the second time around. The difference being that Mass. restructured their coaching program (for the better IMHO) between year 1 and year 2. More of a training program than an ID camp. He became a better all around player and was exposed to much more than what his club coaches had presented to him. On his club team he was a midfielder, on his HS team he was a forward and on the ODP team he was a fullback. Needless to say, his college coach loves the versatility that he offers. My son benefitted by playing with and against very strong players. He became a better player. The Region 1 camp was completive for spots but also had educational aspects which also benefitted the players. As a result of his play at the Region 1 ID camp, he was contacted by several Div. 1, 2 & 3 coaches. Schools that were previously not on his radar. I was impressed by one of the "name" Div. 1 schools and felt he should go there. He wanted a smaller school and went to a Div. 2 school instead. His ODP teammates went to various 1,2 &3 schools. He played a ton as a freshman while the other kids recruited at the "name" school barely saw any time their freshman season. It depends on what a particular college needs for players at certain positions each season. I give him a lot of credit for picking the right school that 1) fit his academic requirements and then 2) his soccer playing requirements. Younger Son -Born earlier in the year. I forced him (mea culpa) to go to his first ODP tryout. A hot, hazy day and the kid was covered with poison ivy. He had a decent tryout & made the pool but didn't want to sign up because of the distance to the training field. He asked me to go his second year, had a great tryout, made the pool. But, he decided not to play Mass. ODP because he wanted to play hockey. This soccer dad learned from his mistake from the previous year and let him play hockey. Ask yourself this question, Are you are asking your son to go to ODP for you or for him?" The correct answer is to let him play the sport he wants to play. He was also selected for the Super-Y ODP ID camp his first year. Went to Florida in January and was not in the "match condition" as the southern players. Was selected again this year for the Super-Y ODP camp and has taken his own initiative to weight lift and run in preparation for this camp. More of an ID camp than a training program. In summary, 1) I like the ODP process because you play with better players and should become a better player. Not all off the best players participate because of cost or distance. 2) Exposes your child to a new coaching style. How your child reacts to a certain coach or coaching style can also vary. I couldn't see my sons playing for a Bobby Knight type of coach, but, the man achieves results that took him past Dean Smith in the win column.... 3) It's another expense in time and $$$. More suburban kids than urban, but, they have tried to make it more accessible to all. 4) It provides exposure, especially at the older age groups. Simply having ODP on his resume doesn't earn him a full ride to UCLA. He has to be seen performing consistently at a high level to attract college coaches. 5) Players born earlier in the year (spring vs. fall) generally have an advantage. 6) Is your child going to ODP to feed your ego or do they really want it?
I really don't know much about Oregon soccer ODP wise, I hear it is very competitive (my first year in Region IV). But as an ODP coach when I go out and evaluate players I am not looking for a kid who can dribble the length of the field, I am looking for a player who can read the game and pick his spots when to go 1V1 and beat a man or when to pass the ball. Once again ODP IS NOT PERFECT but right it is basically all we have.
We have the same ODP selection process on the opposite coast. However, I would not use the word "selfish." The true operative word is "noisy." The ODP coaches like players who attract attention with a noisy style. They attract attention by holding onto the ball forever, by doing flashy but generally useless dribbling tricks, by running a lot, by tackling aggressively, by calling for the ball. In general, by playing an in-your-face style. There are some merits to that approach at any level of soccer, and even more merits at the relatively mediocre level of teenage U.S. club soccer. There are also drawbacks. I watched a 3v3 match last week that featured several state ODP players against a team with one regional squad player, one regional pool player, and two state players. You would think that the second team would win, right? That is the team with the two best players according to ODP. The score was 9-0, for the first team. The two weakest players on the field were the regional players. The virtues that had them picked for the regional team were vices in this match. Holding the ball a lot and doing tricks meant getting stripped and conceding counterattack goals. This was particularly true since the two regional players were the two worst players on the field technically; the ball tricks disguised their poor first touch, which was exposed when space disappeared. Running all over the field to win 50/50 balls did no good, as there are no 50/50 balls in a well-played small-field match. Yelling commands at teammates did not good. In short, your observation of the ODP selection process is the same as mine. I would just word it differently, and would add that for the type of direct, aggressive, full-field ball that ODP wishes to play, its selections do just fine. But many of those selections are not complete soccer players, and would be lost at sea in a different style of match.
1) I'm sure you know ODP name doesn't mean that much - particularly in states with large numbers of capable players at U12 - U15 when coaches are unfamiliar with kids that are quickly changing because of maturity issues. 2) 3 v 3 - forwards vs defenders. Goalkeeper vs mids. 3v3 is not the same game as 11v11 outdoor soccer. 3) '91 non-ODP vs '92 national pool kids would be a wipe for many teams I know. On a couple of groups ot kids I've worked with at one point, the worst player on the field for them was the National ODP kid. This is often because the better players were Aug - December while ODP was limited to the typically much smaller pool of Jan - July birthdays.
Anybody know anything about the situation with ODP in California-North? I've heard that at least in the younger age brackets working your way up through district tryouts is a total waste of time and that getting ID'ed through Super Y League is the way to go. For kids who are really top-notch skill players, anyway. Apparently ODP training is mostly fitness stuff, which seems pretty dumb for 12 and 13 year olds. I have to say though, the kids that I've seen that have gone through to state tryout are really high-quality players, and by no means all the bigger-faster superathlete types, so they seem to be doing OK on the ID side. This is the 93s and 94s I'm talking about... no idea about the older brackets. What happens when the Cal-North and Cal-South players get thrown together in the state pool?
I don't think they get thrown together unless they make the Region IV team. I believe they're a separate entity. As this is my son's first year ('90 ODP), I'm not quite sure how it all works, but I would think they don't combine them. It will be interesting to see how the Vegas Regional Championships go. Any bets on some of the winners this year? Hope the weather is good and not too cold. Vegas can be cold this time of year.
I didn't express myself well there. What I meant to ask was how do Cal-North players do compared to Cal-South players in head to head competition at ODP state level, or for regional places? Does Cal-South have a big edge in performance/results?
Good question. There are some very good players from CalN, but if memory serves me, I believe CalS teams tend to win more at the Regional championship. We'll see this year.
Cal-North has some very good players and some good teams, but Cal-South is far stronger than Cal-North and everywhere else. I think Cal-South was the co-champion (due to weather) in 3 of the 4 "ODP Championships" that were contested this year.
Whats the deal in Illinois? My son plays on a pretty good team, guests played on some of the best teams in Illinois, we know several players on ODP teams but I still think some of the best don't play ODP. BTW he has decided to participate in ODP this year and is attending the training, I see that most of them are good but I was expecting more out of the players and I see very little development from the program.
In Virginia, there is a lot of technical training. It is definitely a lot of development and not just identification. Someday I will put together a poll page for all the states and see where people rank their ODP on the development/identification spectrum. There are a lot of generalizations on this board about it being all tryouts and identification, but I wonder how many states are more like Virginia.
What is your definiton of a lot of technical training. In NJ we have them once a week for about 13 weeks. Not a lot in my opinion. The clubs do all the technical training. ODP is for identification. And for the most part it is identification for Regional college coaches.
In Illinois, at the younger ages, there is 14 hours worth of training during the winter, 3 1/2 hours per day, one day per month, for 4 months. There is one outdoor session in the autumn. Then State Camp. My kid's club coach derisively termed the indoor sessions, "70 kids crammed onto one field doing U9 drills." That is a bit harsh, but the reality is that with a no-cut policy until after the State Camp, the sessions do have a lowest common denominator feel about them, and yes space is at a premium. Finally, there is a limit to what can be accomplished in 14 hours. So I and others do not view these sessions as being very meaningful developmentally, no. Maybe for a talented kid who happens to be at a particularly poor and isolated club, who doesn't get training sessions of even that quality. I guess that is possible. At the older ages, I don't know. But I would be surprised if the ODP folks got the kids for enough time to make a meaningful impact.
My definition of "a lot of development" is as follows: 1) A high percentage of the time that players are at ODP sessions in Virginia is spent on developmental activities such as skill drills, demonstration and instruction by coaches, small sided games, and instruction in tactics. 2) A low percentage of time is spent scrimmaging while ODP evaluators make notes on who they want to select for the next level. 3) The coaches seem to be giving players a lot of feedback on what they need to work on, not just identifying what the players already are. 4) Virginia has a District ODP program in which the state is divided into four geographic districts. Players try out for District ODP in August and get about 15 hours of training one day a week in the fall (during club season in Virginia) in addition to the 15 or so hours of winter training they will get if they are selected for the state training pool in early December. Is 30 hours of training a lot? No, of course it is not. How can ODP do more without conflicting directly with clubs and high schools, with whom they want to maintain good relations? The point is that, if it were "just an identification" system, they would skip the whole District ODP with its fall training sessions, hold a tryout at the end of the fall, choose a state team, then run the state training sessions in the winter as if they were trying to put a team together for ODP tournaments (scrimmaging, figuring out what positions everyone plays best, etc.) rather than spending those sessions teaching, practicing skills, etc. Having a son in the system for four years now, I can confirm that they seem quite intent on teaching. The teaching is much more serious and frequent than many club environments provide. I realize that many states have no District program, and everything starts with a couple of tryout days for the state team, then half a dozen training sessions, then off to the region tournament in the summer. That sounds like mostly an identification process, but I wonder how many states might sound more like Virginia.
Clark, Very few States do as you describe Virginia going, and very few can. Distance, weather, population are all factors that impact how an ODP program can be structured. In states with large distances to be traveled districts may seem viable, but if most of the population is in one distict, especially the population that plays competitive soccer, districts will not work. Missouri tried the district approach at one time, then abandoned it for the reason above, and is back to trying it again. Other problems with multiple training sessions include conflicts with club games and events. For these reasons and others most States treat ODP as talent identification.
I'll post my reply based on the topic. I think there's great weight to be had in ODP. Look at the Texas A&M roster. All but a handful of those girls were in ODP. And the ones who weren't are seniors on thier way out the door. That says alot about the program. If you're serious about the sport, then you use the system that's in place to achieve your goals. You don't belly ache about how bad or unfair it is. You do what you need to do to get where you want to go. Every parent I have ever spoken to (face to face) about ODP has complained about it in some way. It's the parents who's children DID NOT make the team who complain the most. They're the ones who find the biggest faults with the program. Or the one's who did make the team...their child wasn't getting the attention, playing time, this, that, or the other, that the parent felt their child deserved. I don't see any parents complaining until some bump in the road comes along. If a child makes the national team, do you think you have a group of parents complaining about it? No.
Of course. Just as those whose children who do well in the ODP process are likeliest to defend ODP. As you point out. We're trying to have a discussion here without getting into that stuff, though. Most of the recent posts seem to be in that spirit.
ODP (at least in PA East) has become too much about who you know rather than the quality of your play. Players who made the team as U13s continue to be picked year after year because of the fact that the coach knows them. This type of pseudo-nepotism makes it extremely difficult for players to break into the system at older ages, and even deters players from trying out. I have played against ODP players and found that myself and a number of players on my team who have tried out for ODP and been cut (I have not, see above for reason) are of a much higher skill level and play the game with a team-approach, rather than the little Christiano Ronaldos ODP seems so enamored with.
My son's a U13 and it seems that the ODP sessions conlict with club activities once it gets warm here. I know ODP is supposed to take priority over club but to miss an important game and drive 2 hours so he can be put in another 3 v 3 mini tournament just doesnt make sense. When you consider eating and fuel the day is usually 60 - 70 dollars. So, we have passed on ODP for this year and decided to maybe do it next year. We do have the district sessions but they are not any better than his club training sessions and usually not as good. We also run into a lot of cliques (spelling? ) at ODP because of the state headquarters (Indy)being in close proximity to a lot of the sessions and the Indy clubs having so many kids there. In fairness they are offering some state pool sessions in other locations this year so they are trying.
Chitown, I understand the complaint. In my state we have some who feel the same. For us, ODP does not take precedence over club; however, if you miss many sessions you miss the opportunity to be seen. As I wrote before, each situation (both state and player's) and you have to evaluate your purpose and the value receive.