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Discussion in 'Ecuador' started by Guayaquileño, Dec 16, 2007.
"la patria ya es de todos" haha.
Este tipo es un pobre resentido.
this is just a little bit radical....but we can agree to disagree
Correa has done many good things with the country since he's been in office, of those I'd have to say the best is the fact that he has injected newfound confidence into the political system in Ecuador...although he's definitely not perfect, he's definitely the best man for the job right now...a mix of media savyness, intelligence and courage...
The man is power hungry... although he is no Chavez, he still is power hungry... and the worst of all he a resentido... he has given confidence because he has done New things in office and I'm gonna give it to him that he talks with conviction and delivers great speeches and is very nationalistic.. but the man is a resentido... he basically criticizes his own city GYE and helped mutilate the provincia de Guayas... what kind of a man does that to his own land???
he is set on centralizing the government so much that everything that Guayaquil and liberalism and free economy stand for is in jeopardy..... He is constantly challenging Nebot's desicions.. the guy should stop being a "micro manager" and just make sure that the overall country is heading in the right direction instead of butting in to everything that the city does...
You say these things about him because you are from Quito, a serrano... but trust me if you were from GYE, the most important metropolis of Ecuador, you would be very worried of the threat that Correa poses to the region.
I would have no problems with him if he wasn't so resentido and if he wouldn't be meddling in the city's affairs... Guayaquil has always been sort of unique from the rest of the country.. because Guayaquileños are very proud ppl and we aren't ever going to let a resentido stop the progress the city has financed with its own money.. not with federal money... but with its own money and capital... that my friend, is a free economy.. not some leftist socialist movement set on centralizing gov't to the smallest level.
the days when Guayaquil was under centralized gov't's rules is gone.... in the past.. the city couldn't grow as it should have because central gov't ordered it to pay tribute taxes to Quito.. benefitting Quito instead of GYE (similar to NYC and how its tax money and other revenue percentages go to the state and it gives more than it receives).. that's why Quito was ahead of GYE in the past in terms of modernizing and beautifying. A lil more than a decade ago GYE woke the f_kk up and decided to improve itself on its own b/c the gov't wasn't willing to help or care.. and look what happened.. GYE is beautiful and prosperous now... we are not going to let Correa stop this ongoing progress... not now not ever.
Guayaquil should be autonomous.. sort of what China does with Hong Kong.
You're right, we will agree to disagree...
I don't say things about him because I'm from Quito, I say these things because of the circumstances in which he assumed power, lets not forget the fragility of the political system in Ecuador...compared to the other industrialized countries of the world, Ecuador politically and economically staggers at least 100 years behind. In the past 10 years we went through how many presidents? what was the risk premium for investing in Ecuador last year alone? how much money was the IMF and World Bank filtering out of our oil revenue? Why does the US have to police our actions? I understand the importance of Guayaquil to Ecuador, its the biggest city, the economic hub of Ecuador and the most important shipping point probably on the Pacific coast of South America. All things aside, you must also remember that THE COUNTRY as a whole is not in good shape whatsoever, the free market kills the third world and capitalism is a fallacy of wealth...Guayaquil might be a good cornerstone for exemplary use of money for urban rejuvenation but don't forget the hundreds of thousands who live outside the city center and still do not benefit from the wealth of the city, money is concentrated in the hands of a few families who monopolize the country's businesses resources, thats not capitalism or free market planning. Centralized planning is Cold War policy man, it died back with the USSR. that's virtually extinct in today's day and age, the only planning there will be will most likely take the form of new fiscal policy measures to ensure theres adequate taxation and social benefit programs for those who can't really help themselves. Ecuador cannot ever be a competitive force in the free market until a good amount of the country can pick itself out of poverty and stop thinking at a regional level, sometimes some initiatves must be sacrificed for the good of the country, just because Guayaquil's 2 million people feel threatened by increased governmental control doesn't mean that it makes it right for the other 12 million to suffer, at times the utilitarian ideal of the greatest good for the greatest number has to take place...resentido or not, he loves his city and probably resents some of the control that big business has over local government. Even here in the US people feel threatened by governmental control and regulations, whether you agree or disagree things like the Patriot Act (which i oppose fervently), Immigration Legislation, unions and Socialized medicine initiatives all create the same divisiveness but the difference between Ecuador and the United States is that here there is a respect for the rule of law. Correa is not perfect, he is not Chavez, but as an Economist I trust his judgment a little bit more on things regarding Economic policy, his leftist ideas don't really mesh well with Guayaquil's big business nor do they mesh with American policy but I'll tell you that if he wasn't president that we'd be in a world of trouble both economically and politically....
Hong Kong will not be autonomous forever, its only going to last a few more years...its only temporary
12 million people gain way more from Guayaquil's past prosperity than they suffer from it.
If it is not broken, do not fix it!
If he wants to take care of the other 12 million because, then he can tackle that battle head-on by decentralizing Quito.
Changing what has been a role model of a city for many other cities across the globe as an example of growth, positive moral and good self feeling, economics and job security and beautification is definetly not the answer.
Transferring the wealth and power from the families that have it to Correa and his government is not the answer either.
i think that he is trying to destroy regionalism between la costa and la sierra, he has also give some attention to el oriente. I think he is a different breed of president. I think destroyin the regionalism is a good thing, but im scared that he is going to harm the progress that guayaquil has made. I want to see progress for the whole country, but at the same time i dont want to see him stifle the progress certain cities have made. Nebot isnt a saint either, i like that he has done a lot for guayaquil however i want to see more done for the whole country, not only certain cities.
I agree with the concept of what you posted. It is simply un patriotic to want to see one region suffer while another progresses.
However, cities can and should be seperate entities just as the provinces should be too. It has nothing to do with costa-sierra. Manabi and Guayas are both costa, and they should be independent of themeselves just as Pichincha and Guayas should be. The first step is to have a people's election for provincial governors.
I don't think "centralismo" is the solution. If certain cities aren't growing then the answer is not to bring the cities that progress down a notch, by allocating funds from these cities that have a net profit margins but to find resources as well and a strcture and plan to try to bring those othere cities up on par level with the ones that flourish.
Government is not required to run this and should not be directly invloved in these projects in any way shape or form other than to provide council, promote social services and do check and balances as far as funding is concerned. Their role is to assist while the managment needs to be done by local government.
Local investment and private sector is always going to be needed to promote growth and with the asistance of the national government, it should be left to the governor and mayors of these areas to micro manage their territories, regardless if it's costa, sierra or oriente.
The role the national government is taking is not helping the confidence of outside investors who see the private sector slowly being pulled into the claws of Correa's government. He thinks he knows everything and if people have a different opinion on an issue well then they must be wrong...
If anything the one city,that has been kind of suffering from this centralismo y regionalism,es la ciudad de Manta.Even though Manta does not get support from the ecua government,it has still manage to become the fastest growing city in Ecuador.And hopefully pretty soon one of the most important in South America and probably the Western Hemisphere.It is f!cked that foreigners look at Manta City has a trading powerhouse and are helping improve not only the city,but also la provincia de Manabi.Due to it's geographical location,mar abierto.El Puerto de Manta es punto de tierra mas cerca para los barcos que llegan a Sur America desde Asia. Open sea and aguas profundas(not like another "port",they have to wait hasta que suba la marea para que entren los buques,becuase they are technically a Gulf and not a port) many Asians and European companies are looking at Manta has a easier way to trade to with the Americas,especially the south.Adding to this they already started a route that will connect the Pacific to the Amazons,the only one of it's kind.It will go from Manta,Ecuador to Manaos,Brasil.They also want an air route has well,all of this for trading and business purposes.They also want to make el aeropuerto Eloy Alfaro,an international airport for passengers,it is already international,but for cargo only.They only have domestic flights.Manta's airport has one of ,if not the best runaways in South America,and once again this was all done by the US government and NOT our own.Somehow our politicians only have eyes for Quito and GYE ,and have always put a pero a este tema.Son angurientos que quieren todo para esas ciudades solamente.And they fear que una ciudad tan bella como Manta subresalga.A big help for Manta es el turismo,el turismo ayuda a que la ciudad y provincia siga creciendo,sin tener apoyo monitario del gobierno.
Correa has promise many things a los manabas,just like the other useless presidents.But either way it's f!cked that my city is moving up from help from other countries and not the local government.They should take for example the provincilizacion de Santa Elena,and pay more attention not only to Manta,but all the cities in the country.
Actually, within the Gulf of Guayaquil you find the port of the city of Guayaquil... the city lies in the interior of the gulf and it is a port. But anyways........ Guayaquil barely receives any help from the gov't especially in the past... the city has funded everything from it's own money, revenue, capital, whatever you wanna call it.
I am very happy for Manta, as a fellow costeño I want to see it grow and become as great as Guayaquil even... we need more important cities on this side of the country because GYE is alone over here and we have had to move towards progress all alone and with our own efforts. I guess that's why we're so protective of out rights over there... But we also are getting help from overseas such as China and their int'l company to manage our port somewhat.. and more stuff I can't remember right now.
I've been reading about Manta-Manaus route.. it sounds great... as well as foreign money going to Manta's port.. that's fantastic.
Atleast you guys have better resources than GYE did when we first started moving towards progress..
I hate to be nitpicky but people from the Sierra can also be proud of Manta's and Guayaquil's progress, I'll be the one of the first to say that these things are all good for the country. While I consider myself to be a Quiteño, I am an Ecuadorian first and foremost. As an Ecuadorian, I want to see Manta grow into the most important port in Ecuador and the Pacific coast of South America.
That's great... no one said you can't.
its just better to set the record straight and cut out the regionalistic talk...we are all Ecuatorianos, unidos simpre
Thats whats up this is the way to think.But our corrupt politicians don't think that way.Ecuador is a small country,but has all the resources to be a giant.Hay que explotar todo lo que tiene the whole country,not just Quito and GYE,sh!t I bet sontimes they forget we have the Galapagos Island.I can only imagine if the centralismo,regonalismo and corruption would ease,Ecuador would be a powerhouse in the Americas.
That's not being nitpicky at all. It would be great if more and more people from all regions in Ecuador shared your sentiment!!
Great post! REP!!!
Well actually to get rid of all this regionalism talk that was started.. let me get to the point of this forum.. which is not regionalism... but that Correa is a threat.
This cat is right on the money about Correa ...
So is he...
I can't believe I am reading this. Before Correa, remember the thiefs who called themselves politicians. Where did you get you information from?
I got a phrase for you. It is called "Disinfo"
Before you start writing the things you are writing about, do us all a favor, find out where you are receiving this information from. You have your head in the right place which is why I want you to see for yourself. Always question the media and their motives. Remember who runs the media and how things get "Filtered"
Follow the White Rabbit and you will see just how far deep the rabbit hole is.
Again, do a little research on your "Source". If that does not make your jaw drop, then we are headed down hill.
Those in power do not believe in true democracy.
btw, that comment you made about being Serrano and GYE was the first blow in your part. It is comments such as this that segregate us. It is pure bigotry and I think you know better than that.
Don't reduce anyone to the lowest common denominator. That is far from an intelligent argument.
what's bad about me calling him a serrano? Isn't that the right word to use because he is from the sierra.. unless I was wrong???. I really don't understand you there buddy... and I didn't intent on segregating anyone.. he just simply wasn't understanding where I was coming from so I pointed out about where he was from in contrast to where I'm from in the country.. that's all.. please don't blow this up more than it has to.. I got love for all ecuas...
But yea... in terms of politics.. I agree also that before correa.. there were also corrupt politicians... the thing with correa is not about so much being corrupt as we have known it before his term.. the thing about him is his condescending nature.. and know it all attitude... he thinks that he is daddy and should repartir el pan like he was some kinda king... I don't agree much with his "new socialist" plan.. Until I see positive REAL change.. I aint going to support this guy.. all he has shown me and many others is that he is hungry to centralize power for himself... now that the new asamblea is in effect.. he is constantly meddling in affairs... he threats that he will resign if so and so gets passed or heard... WTF is that? last I heard Ecuador's gov't functions on separation of powers just like the US.. eventhough I also repudiate Bush.. you don't see that nitwit threatening congress...
the differences between the United States political system and the Ecuadorian one are very stark and provide many contrasts, while we have similar ways of governance, we're totally different because of many factors including our poverty rate, weak economy, fragile political system and the high levels of societal corruption from the top down. I doubt that any of us will ever see any REAL positive change in the near future, all plans laid out are set in effect for the long run, as an economist he thinks in futures, which to be honest is the only safe route to change...simple fixes or "band-aid" touch ups in the short run keep the people reliant on the system...Similar to the the British system of governance, the Prime Minister is the head of the political party and therefore has great leverage in agenda setting, just like Correa...I will not go far to say that he's power hungry as he is just simply trying a new method of governance of a country thats been historically fragile and volatile. As long as we're still third world we'll always have these political problems, it will take generations to fix and more than likely we'll only see seedlings of any type of change. He is a man with a PhD from a great American university and good preparation in Europe as well, the man is an intellectual and has great capacities to lead, he needs a chance to set his agenda and plan into effect before we can truly begin to judge his moves, because he just might be on to something...not only for Ecuador but for Peru, Colombia, Chile among all the other compatriotas of Central and South America, the free market keeps crippling our economies and helping it at the same time, but it does more bad than good...this leftward shift is reactionary to the whole world order which keeps a certain few in privileged places and we're trying to change it
que manifestacion tan grande y azul en Guayaquil hoy
Jaime noboa vs correa
correa dice que le gano 5-1 en las urnas
pero lo de hoy fue muy grande, tienen dividido al pais? a donde va aparar esto?
Es practicamente la ciudad de Santiago de Guayaquil y la region metropolitana contra el gobierno de Correa.... una pelea que se vee desnivel pero en realidad los Guayaquileños no se dejan... la vamos a pelear hasta que se respete la autonomia de la ciudad y nuestra tradicion.
Decenas de miles de personas se agolparon en la avenida Nueve de Octubre y muchas de sus intersecciones, con diversos reclamos.
Fue una protesta con pancartas, con camisetas blancas y banderas de Guayaquil y Ecuador. Miles de ciudadanos se volcaron ayer a la avenida Nueve de Octubre para criticar al Gobierno y sus decisiones.
La marcha, liderada por el alcalde de Guayaquil, Jaime Nebot, copó la principal avenida de la urbe y calles aledañas del casco comercial en un número mayor al convocado por el presidente de la República, Rafael Correa, el pasado sábado.
El punto final del recorrido fue el discurso de Nebot, quien apareció solo en la tarima para advertir, en tono enérgico, al Mandatario y a la Asamblea.
“Guayaquil estará en marcha y pronto el Ecuador lo estará también”, dijo Nebot, quien interactuó con los presentes.
“¿Cuál es el apellido del enemigo de Guayaquil?”, “¿ustedes le creen al Presidente?”, preguntó a la multitud.
Mientras, en Quito, una sorpresiva marcha de protesta contra el régimen llegó a la Tribuna de la avenida de Los Shyris, al tiempo que el presidente Correa minimizó la marcha en Guayaquil y llamó otra vez “matón de barrio” al alcalde Jaime Nebot.
Aseguró que se elaborará un mandato para que se respete la autonomía y a los municipios.
Abriéndose paso entre las miles de personas que llenaron diez cuadras de la av. Nueve de Octubre, a pie y a ratos cargado en hombros, el alcalde de Guayaquil, Jaime Nebot, llegó al malecón Simón Bolívar una hora después de empezar su marcha desde el parque Centenario.
Eran las 16:15 y los gritos de la multitud avivaban su paso hacia la tarima, donde la cantante Beatriz Gil lo esperaba para empezar a entonar el himno al Nueve de Octubre. Al término, Nebot bajó de la tarima. Lucía agotado y con la guayabera mojada por la movilización.
Tras recibir hidratación volvió a subir para empezar un discurso de 45 minutos, en los que criticó al Gobierno por la reforma tributaria, la emisión de informes desfavorables de la Procuraduría, el retiro de recursos a la Corporación para la Seguridad Ciudadana y de la facultad para emitir licencias ambientales para obras.
Nebot anunció que la marcha es el principio de la lucha para defender la autonomía y que si no se escuchan los reclamos para mantenerlas, al igual que las rentas para los municipios y las universidades se redactará un mandato de Guayas para entregárselo al presidente Rafael Correa y a la Asamblea.
“Y luego vendrán actos de hecho y de derecho, consultas y referéndum, entiendan o no entiendan este mensaje multitudinario al que pronto se regirán otros sectores de la patria. Dios quiera que lo entiendan, y si no que se responsabilicen ellos de lo que va a pasar en el Ecuador”, expresó el Alcalde.
En ese sentido, aseguró que la nueva Constitución no debe ser una carta “de esclavitud sino de convivencia ciudadana”, en la que se respete la diversidad.
También cuestionó el plan de Senplades y dijo que busca retacear Guayaquil. “Quieren reducirlo quizá a una cuadra del Municipio (...) en el odio a Guayaquil ya no quieren saldar la pobreza, quieren matar a los pobres. Eso no lo vamos a permitir ¡************!”. Enseguida advirtió a la Asamblea que si se aprueba ese plan, la próxima manifestación será en Montecristi.
Y para ello aseveró que pedirán todos los permisos, los “necesarios e innecesarios” para viajar hasta Ciudad Alfaro. “Señores asambleístas no jueguen con fuego, se van a quemar”.
Ratificó que no quieren un dólar del Gobierno, pero sí que los dejen trabajar.
En su discurso también confrontó abiertamente con el Presidente y para hacerlo interactuó con los asistentes.
¿Nebot defiende Guayaquil?, preguntó. “Sí” respondieron al mismo tiempo. Luego subió el tono: “¿Cuál es el apellido del enemigo de Guayaquil? preguntó en tres ocasiones. “Correa”, “Correa”, “Correa” respondieron con gritos los congregados.
También comparó su tiempo de servicio público con el del Presidente. “Cuando él estudiaba en Estados Unidos, yo ya servía a Guayaquil. Cuando él estudiaba en Bélgica, no en universidades ecuatorianas como yo estudié, yo ya servía”.
Las pancartas, con leyendas como “No somos un cantoncito y estamos bravitos” o “El hambre ya es de todos” o “Los Tres Chiflados de Latinoamérica (con imágenes de Correa, Hugo Chávez y Evo Morales)” eran agitadas por los simpatizantes en cada frase del discurso, en el que aseguró que la confrontación del Presidente no es un asunto de mero temperamento, sino que responde a una estrategia electoral perversa.
Al final, Nebot abrió su guayabera, mostró su pecho sin chalecos y dijo que será el escudo de Guayaquil porque está dispuesto a dar el resto de su vida por la ciudad. Antes de despedirse flameó una bandera celeste y blanco unida a una del Ecuador y las lanzó al público, que una vez más lo respaldó.
Nebot is a demagogue just like every other political figure in Ecuador
this is a good way for him to rattle up crowds...seeing as how there is an incredibly large number of impovershed people in Guayaquil and its surrounding provinces, I'd like to hear about how many of those people are actually well informed as to the issues being brought up or if they even know what is going on...as in many other third world countries, mass protests do not mean anything because they are staged and often times done with rewards being given to attendants or simply its a bunch of noveleros...I'm not saying that any one side is correct but Nebot being the leader of a large political machine which has historically been corrupt in certain instances is kind of a laughable people's "champion"