NRR: This is depressing and exciting at the same time

Wow, this is awful sweet. This is Toronto's brand new development and training facility. The Revs are falling further and further behind.

http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/10/01/tour-kia-training-ground-part-1
http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/10/01/tour-kia-training-ground-part-2

Yes, we have one of the worst management in MLS

Wow, that is really, really nice. It rivals some of the European training facilities and can only help TFC "seal the deal" when they bring in prospective DP players. Well thought out and shows a progression plan for the academy teams into the first team. training pitches of differnet composition, strength and agility training, diet, massage therapy, relaxation ( no Foosball ?), medical, etc. I like that TFC is showing the behind the scenes aspect of their operation and could only wish that the NER were as transparent.

What do we have that we can show prospective DP players?
"Here's the seat that Giselle sits in when she watches Tom play...No, Didier! You can't sniff it"

That's a world class facility and will be an asset in both developing and attracting top talent.

Here is what Red Bull is building.

http://www.louisberger.com/OurProjects/North America/RB-Training-Facility

Don't we have that inflatable egg?

Wow...just wow

Yes, one that Bob Kraft laid for his golden first love team...!

WE'RE #19! WE'RE #19! WE'RE #19! WE'RE #19! WE'RE #19! WE'RE #19! WE'RE #19!

(soon to be #20!!!!!)

Toronto FC had many advantages when it came into the league: committed ownership, a large and enthusiastic fan base, and the ability to learn from the mistakes of the older clubs. Nonetheless, Toronto has been notable only for the consistency of its failures. More power to them if it helps, but my first thought is that if the people responsible for all the non-success at BMO field the last six years are behind this, I'm definitely going to wait and see.

Toronto FC had many advantages when it came into the league: committed ownership, a large and enthusiastic fan base, and the ability to learn from the mistakes of the older clubs. Nonetheless, Toronto has been notable only for the consistency of its failures. More power to them if it helps, but my first thought is that if the people responsible for all the non-success at BMO field the last six years are behind this, I'm definitely going to wait and see.

It's possible to be successful in one area of your business and not in another. Most businesses are. Where most of the anger among fans comes from, is that the Revs aren't really successful in anything other than keeping KSG from losing money. Which, I suppose is some modicum of success, but most of their cost controls, which prop up the Revs, are completely independent of the Revs business.

A quick glance at their boards suggests that Toronto FC fans hate their management as much as Revs fans hate their's, and the standings over the last three years show TFC fans have seen even worse soccer than we have. There are plenty of teams in MLS who are objectively more successful than the Revs to point to as examples of what to do; Toronto doesn't happen to be one of them, so I will retain my scepticism for now.

A quick glance at their boards suggests that Toronto FC fans hate their management as much as Revs fans hate their's, and the standings over the last three years show TFC fans have seen even worse soccer than we have. What is the value of pointing at something they are doing unless it actually turns out to work?

They haven't found success on the field, but they've been good on the business end and have developed a good brand that is easily recognizable in their market. This is another example of their success on the business development end. Hopefully this can be a good tool for them in both further developing their academy and recruiting higher caliber players.

Comparing the amount or degree of hatred from fans toward their respective ownership groups doesn't paint any sort of coherent picture. Fan expectations are different in every climate and every situation. Just because TFC fails on the field, and their fans display their level of concern, doesn't mean the two situations are anywhere near being equal.

As much as I would love to have an MLS Cup contending team every year, I would still take TFC's situation over ours any day of the week. I'm sure after some level of indoctrination, the shine would wear off, and my expectations would shift if the team wasn't winning. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want their situation over ours.

Actually, if anything, I would say that some of the most fervently supported clubs, who do have success on the field, might even see their fans just as angered by not winning trophies as we are at not even making the playoffs. Some of those rabidly supported clubs haven't been alienated for 17 years, and stuck in a climate of pathetic apathy.

So, just because TFC has failed in winning on the field, I would hardly say that they have been a complete and utter failure overall. They have done a much better job than most teams at connecting to, and fostering an environment that actually loves the game of soccer. Not just some sideshow that fills time in the offseason. Of course winning is important, but just because they haven't, doesn't mean that everything they've done along the way is wrong, and everything they do for the future should be looked at skeptically.

It is NOT the same thing!!

It's NEVER EVER been the same thing..
Nothing about the TFC fans angst has to do with Chucky Cheese Marketing or feeling second fiddle in their own home!! They have every right to be unhappy with what's on the field..but it has nothing to do with their ownership NOT TRYING or investing. What they feel for their OWNER is nothing compared with what some of us feel for Good Ole BOB KRAFT...!!

Ours does NOTHING and the "Kraft is the best owner in the Universe" fans trudge along and then point fingers at other groups, like TFC and Chivas..REALLY??

KRAPATHY RULES in new england..!

It is NOT the same thing!!

It's NEVER EVER been the same thing..
Nothing about the TFC fans angst has to do with Chucky Cheese Marketing or feeling second fiddle in their own home!! They have every right to be unhappy with what's on the field..but it has nothing to do with their ownership NOT TRYING or investing. What they feel for their OWNER is nothing compared with what some of us feel for Good Ole BOB KRAFT...!!

Ours does NOTHING and the "Kraft is the best owner in the Universe" fans trudge along and then point fingers at other groups, like TFC and Chivas..REALLY??

KRAPATHY RULES in new england..!

I'd take last place with BMO field and TFC atmosphere over ChuckyBradyCheese Stadium and KRAPATHY in each of the trillion parallel universes that I may exist in..and if one of my alter egos actually chooses Kraft in any scenario, I'll hunt him down when I'm reincarnated and shove a musket up his ass..!!

Sorry, but pointing out that Bob Kraft is not the only source of evil in the universe is very far from saying he is a good owner, let alone the best.

I spent less than two minutes on the Toronto board and very easily found a "not renewing my season tickets" thread and post talking about how kicking the ownership group out of the league was the only way things were going to get better. It all felt very familiar.

"Oh woe is us!" ranting by fans is every bit as common as management screw ups, and TFC and the Revs have both in spades. I wouldn't have expected that pointing that out would generate such a heated response, but I actively try to avoid having a love/hate relationship with the teams I like so I clearly don't fit in around here.

Well, the difference is that while they are a well run team off the field and a "serious" sports entity in their local market. That kind of stuff takes a lot longer to build and also will last a lot longer than the on-field results of any team in any sport. On-field results will ebb and flow when a good team's core gets older. Good management isn't going to go away overnight.

The Revs were horrible for their first few years. Then, from 2002 t0 2007, they were one of the better teams in the league. But they couldn't re-tool to keep up to that level and the decline set in. Some of the teams that are good now used to suck badly, like RSL. Toronto has always sucked on the field, but they won't always. Sure, their fans are frustrated and impatient, especially when they see teams that came into the league after they did doing much better.

Toronto is like a house that is structurally sound, but the clapboards need to be repaired and painted. When the Revs were good, they were like a nicely landscaped yard, pristine swimming pool, surrounded by a beautiful garden, and the foundation of the house is cracked and crumbling, the electrical wiring isn't up to code, and the pipes are rusty and look like they will burst at any moment. Then they let the pool get all algae-d, the garden got overgrown with weeds and the place is a mess. All Toronto needs to do is hire a carpenter and a painter....

That's about the size of it Tom.. But, noting all that will never sway the "Bob Kraft is the greatest human to walk the earth since the guy that discovered the wheel" crowd...

Ever since I started posting on here in 2005...I've gotten tons of messages from peeps to STFU about Bobby!! Oh well...

Sorry if it felt like I was personally attacking you..!

And yes you do fit in...I can't just read my own crap day in and day out. If people feel they can equate us with TFC or Chivas or anyone else. I'd like to see the reasoning.

Mine is very biased ANTI-Kraft. I've been here for 17 years. I never put on rosy glasses. Although there were times that the "TEAM" excited me...Mind you..NOT THE OWNERS or the morons that they may have employed(Again!, NOT ALL WERE MORONS)...But, Kraft never did anything..and I don't expect him in the future to really do ANYTHING that may sway me to change my mind.

So when I hear or read that people think the TFC fans feel the same about their ownership as I do about this one..It pains me..greatly! Because ours clearly and succinctly IMO has never made the Revs a priority worth noting..afterthought, to say the least..and everything that Tom wrote prior!

PS. If an NASL team was ever to set up shop in the Boston area with an owner committed to the game and the team, I'd leave this squad with Kraft at the helm quicker than you can say Tea Men..! =)

You are obviously missing the important point of varying fan expectations.