No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011

Discussion in 'China' started by ntg., Oct 12, 2011.

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  1. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]


    Done. Iraq beat Jordan 3-1. China is officially eliminated form the WCQ.

    3 years of friendlies to look forward to. :(
     
  2. Only_ONE_United

    Nov 30, 2008
    Vancouver/Hong Kong
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    China PR
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    I guess we can thank Jordan for putting us out of our misery..
     
  3. Only_ONE_United

    Nov 30, 2008
    Vancouver/Hong Kong
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    China PR
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    Makes me wonder if Camacho will be gone by then on his own accord.

    You think any of our younger players will be peaking in their career by then? Or is this probably it for this crop of the national team?
     
  4. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]


    If ever there's an opportunity to completely revamp, this would be it. No pressure whatsoever from match results. We've all heard Wei Di and Camacho speak of the long run. Now it's a chance for them to show us they meant what they said.
     
  5. YenSter

    YenSter Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    London
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    Ow well China officalliy kicked-out early once again :(.

    I actually missed the Iraqi and the Singapore game and only just found out the result for the Jordan V Iraq game. Trying to stay on a possitive I've just caught the highlights of the Singapore game and Zheng Zheng looks like a find while I'll look at Li Weifengs goal with Irony and wonder what would have happened if we played him up front rather then in defence :rolleyes:.

    Looking ahead I still do believe we are gonna be stuck with Camacho at least because with nothing but friendlies, no pressure and a great contract that he's on he's on easy street, seriously do you think anyone within the CFA will actually do the honourable thing?

    Anyway it's gonna be quiet thread here for awhile, just hope that the Chinese teams in next years AFC Champions league give us something to cheer about and show us in a good light on the international stage for once, hope to see everyone on that thread soon.
     
  6. ntg.

    ntg. Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 9, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    GFG China.
    Bigsoccer China will become a desert for the next few years. :(

    On the bright side, the upcoming friendies and Jordan match will be mainly focused on the youngsters.

    For upcoming results, Camacho will have enough time.

    The Camacho era officially starts now.
     
  7. YLbowman

    YLbowman Member

    Aug 15, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    I'll still be here no matter what :D
    When is the next East Asian Football Championship? If it is going by what it usually goes by it should be coming up very soon
     
  8. Only_ONE_United

    Nov 30, 2008
    Vancouver/Hong Kong
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    China PR
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    Cue yakety sax music :D

    Didn't we just have the EAFF in the beginning of last year before the world cup? I thought it wasn't an annual thing.
     
  9. YLbowman

    YLbowman Member

    Aug 15, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    The last one was played in February of 2010 and it usually happens every 2 years...
     
  10. ntg.

    ntg. Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 9, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    somehow it reminds me of this:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l5Yn1GMf5Y"]Family Guy - First Day Being Pink - YouTube[/ame]

    eh how you doing? first day watching Chinese football?
    welcome to hell.
    *trumpet sound* :(
     
  11. ntg.

    ntg. Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 9, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    fcuk china needs to play more in those minor tournaments..
    from CIS tournament (playing against kazakh, uzbek, tajik --- wide range of levels), Gold Cup, Arab Gulf Cup, some random oceanian starfish sea coconut tournament, or else there wont be any competition for the team :(
     
  12. ntg.

    ntg. Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 9, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    The press asked Camacho if he would use young players for the Jordan game. Camacho replied he will use the same players :eek:, and this might be Li Weifeng's final game.

    -__-
     
  13. chengb02

    chengb02 Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    Actually, we have Iraq to thank, as they outplayed Jordan and earned a good win.

    Not sure what you mean. Last night, with the exception of Datou and Zhao Peng, everybody was 24-26. The only exceptions I can think of are Yang Zhi, who is 28, but as a keeper, he may still be around for awhile, and Zheng Zheng who is 22. A lot of these guys are just starting to come into their prime, and with some of the youngsters that Gao was bringing up and from the Olympic team, there is reason to be (slightly) hopeful for the future.

    I doubt the CFA will fire him, but it isn't an impossibility, it's much more likely that he'll walk away and sign with a Euro club, but we'll see.

    I wouldn't say Camacho's on easy street if he hangs around. Sure, there won't be a lot of matches, but he'll be expected to help China develop and improve, this is a massive task. He's bringing in big bank, but it wouldn't be too hard for him to find a club in Europe that would pay well.

    An ambitious, top manager would run back to Europe to take a job that would pay as much or more with a good club. If Camacho stays, he has a difficult task ahead, but there is a great deal of talent that he has to work with, so the potential success, fame and hero worship (just look at Milu) might be enough to keep him around. Staying is another type of ambition (maybe masochism) but if he can do something with China, he'll be highly in demand. We'll see what he chooses.
     
  14. YLbowman

    YLbowman Member

    Aug 15, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    *facepalm*

    WHYYYYYY???!?!?!??!

    JUST MAKE A CRAP TEAM FULL OF YOUNG PLAYERS AND THEN DECIDE WHO SHOULD GET A CALL-UP! WE'VE ALREADY LOST THE CHANCE TO QUALIFY AND IF HES THINKING LONG TERM THEN THIS WOULD BE THE ROUTE TO GO!

    experimental team:

    GK- Yang Zhi (cause hes awesome)
    DC- Zhang Linpeng (Guangzhou), Ren Hang (Jiangsu)
    DR- Wu Xi (Shanghai)
    DL- Zheng Zheng (Shandong)
    MF- Song Wenjie (Qingdao)
    LMF- Zheng Long (Qingdao)
    RMF- Hao Junmin (Shandong)
    AMF- Wu Lei (Shanghai East Asia)
    AMF- Deng Zhuoxiang (Shandong)
    ST- Wang Yang (Cercle Brugge)


    THERE! MADE! EASY!...
     
  15. chengb02

    chengb02 Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    My first reaction that this is purely brain dead reaction and hopefully it will change over the next 3 months, but in thinking about it more, it's not so bad. Let Datou have one last home match, especially as its in Shenzhen where he won a title. Other than that, Zhao Peng should be removed for a younger center back, and a replacement like Deng or Yang Hao should be used for Huang, but other than that, the lineup last night is young enough to be around for awhile. I'd like to see Han Peng, Yang Xu, or Yu Dabao over Gao Lin, but that would be the only major change.
     
  16. Only_ONE_United

    Nov 30, 2008
    Vancouver/Hong Kong
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    China PR
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    Shouldn't we be turning to the U20s/U19s/U18s now if we are looking at WCQ 2018? Guys who are 26 now will be 30+ by the time the next WC opportunity comes by... :(
     
  17. chengb02

    chengb02 Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    If we do that, we'll assure China doesn't develop. You can't have a wholesale turnover in the national team nor do you want kids (U18s?!?!) going up against grownups. Plus there aren't that many 26 year old (Chen Tao and Gao Lin are the only ones that come to mind). Most importantly, focusing on 2018 doesn't mean the 2018 World Cup, it means the qualification process which will probably start in 2015 (as well as the Asian Cup that year).

    I do hope over the next two years we see Camacho giving a shot to players like Li Xuepeng, Zhang Xizhe, Piao Cheng, Bari Mamital, Cao Yunding, and Zhu Jianrong, but with the exceptions of Zheng Zhi, Datou, Du Wei, and Sun Xiang, the rest of the players who've been starting under Camacho aren't going anywhere.
     
  18. jaredk

    jaredk Member

    Oct 30, 2009
    Club:
    --other--
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    there will be a yao ming or liu xiang in chinese soccer so this forum will be alive ! hehe, a guy can hope rite...

    maybe camacho can do something good for the youth system like they promised at the start.
     
  19. jaredk

    jaredk Member

    Oct 30, 2009
    Club:
    --other--
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    iawtc
     
  20. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    Who says the thread has to be quiet...how about analyzing WHY the CNT is struggling so much. Here's my two cents, as a neutral observer who is living in China and has been watching the CNT matches, but is not a CNT supporter...

    1) Poor trapping skills, especially when receiving long passes. This is very noticeable when watching the matches on TV. Often somebody will make an excellent pass, but the player and the other end will fail to control the ball and lose possession.

    2) Poor positioning on defense, especially the two central defenders. For example, in the Iraq match last Saturday, not only did China have a player sent off for pulling down a player while last man back, but they should've had a second player sent off for the same offense as well.

    3) Relatively poor fitness...for example, in both the Iraq matches, late in the match when China needed a goal to equalize, more than a few player were walking or jogging, instead of running at full speed.

    The first and third problems are inexcusable...at the National Team level, players should be able to control just about any pass, even a 20-yarder on the fly (use a chest trap). Likewise, the is no excuse for players not having the energy to play the full 90 minutes at full speed. Fitness makes a difference late in matches (look the South Koreans the past ten years, or the US-Algeria match at WC 2010).

    The seond problem is harder to rectify, since good positioning is largely a product of experience.

    Thoughts?
     
  21. shanghai_ultra

    Mar 29, 2006
    Shanghai
    Club:
    Shanghai Shenhua
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    All this talk about Jordan getting beat to let Iraq qualify on purpose - you guys need to lay off all those hash jiaozi you've been scoffing down.

    I'm amused to read that people on here think Iraq were so worried they wouldn't be able to avoid defeat by Singapore in the final round, that they had to ask their Arab brothers Jordan to let them win.

    Great stuff, keep it coming!
     
  22. Fevernova99

    Fevernova99 Member

    May 3, 2003
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    I think the phrase hitting the prime of the career is an overused term, mainly because an athlete can only truly hit their prime when they are competing at a high level of competition. As we can clearly see the Chinese league is not a great league in Asia, for the players to truly hit their "prime" they either need to go abroad to compete with the very best in the region or even the world, being a big fish in a small pond is not going to help develop your career.

    Analyzing the failure may be more frustrating than watching because the problem is not about individual skill or fitness or even organization, its so deeply rooted within the whole structure of CFA that unless there is some type of wholesale change the situation is unlikely to change much at all for the future.

    Well life is not a video game, young players dont get XP for just playing in a game nor is there any proof that young players will definitely improve from being thrown in against the wolves. Just look back to Beijing 2008 at the Chinese Olympic team, mainly a U23 squad, 3 years onwards we saw an Asian Cup group elimination and another WCQ failure... if Camacho is going to stick around then he has to pick players that fit whatever system he has in mind, whether its 18 year olds or 32 year olds.
     
  23. chengb02

    chengb02 Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    I would not diss the Chinese league. This year was not a good example, the clubs in the ACL were good last year, but didn't do enough to strengthen themselves. I expect to see good things from Guangzhou and Beijing next year, possibly even Shandong (if they make it).

    I don't think it's true that players need to go abroad to develop, that's hogwash, what they need is good coaching and an opportunity to play regularly, whether it's in Italy, Korea, or China. A manager like Lao Li or Pacheco is going to do a lot to develop a young player, it's their influence more so than Camacho that will make a difference. At the same time, sending a 22 year old to Europe and killing their confidence is not the right thing for their career. What has Europe done for Yu Dabao? Zheng Chengdong?


    I wouldn't put the failure on the head of the (young) players. There are a few reasons why:
    1. China's biggest problem was their defense, which tended to include the most experienced (ie oldest) players.

    2. There was no consistency in Camacho's lineups. Partly that was due to injuries and cards, but that doesn't explain all the drastic changes he made from match to match, 5 matches with 5 different midfields and 5 different defensive pairings.

    3. The coaching change

    It's easy to think "what if", there's no guarantee Gao would have done better, but do any of you honestly think he would have done worse? If you're looking for a place to point fingers, its pretty obvious that much of the blame should fall squarely on Wei Di and the rest of the CFA bigwigs for allowing money to talk.
     
  24. Fevernova99

    Fevernova99 Member

    May 3, 2003
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Re: No matter what happens, Bigsoccer China will always be here - The National Team Thread 2011 [R]

    Sorry buddy but the league is very average at best, I know its hard for fans to accept but that's the reality of things. If the league was any good the national team would be better, since almost every player on the national team is playing there and was developed there. I am dissing the chinese league because i think the greed and corruption along with player stagnation have all played a part in crippling chinese soccer over the last decade. I find it amazing people lay the smackdown on the CFA and lay off the ones responsible for developing 100% of the players on the national team...

    Playing abroad is hogwash, tell me truthfully that you think the quality of any number of foreign based Koreans and Japanese players would be the same if they stayed in their domestic league their entire careers? Playing regularly is a big part of player development although it certainly isn't the biggest, its about training with the best, and competing with the best, while getting the best strategies, tactics and staying motivated to improve. You certainly don't need to go abroad if your league offers high level of competition, but I dont think a 2nd tier Asian league offers that, unless your target is to be 2nd tier in Asia and make the AC and WCQ to go home at the group stages.

    Ultimately the ambition rests with the player, a player forced to move abroad will not do very well nor will a guy who leaves before he is ready. You certainly will not gain success by sending a group of players to Europe, but if a player is hungry and has developed beyond the level hes offered domestically then its time to cut the cord and let him go instead of slapping a big unrealistic price tag on him. Its like what ChengB said in another topic about the transfer fee, I was very surprised how high some chinese players are valued.
     
  25. cfb21

    cfb21 Member

    Aug 28, 2011
    London

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