No January camp? Ridiculous

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by HeMan, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. HeMan

    HeMan Member

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    Rumors are still circling around that we might not have a january camp due to wantIng to prepare for the hex. That's just pure laziness on klinsmann's part if true. Every camp for every year, we get the opportunIty to test some fringe players to see if they are ready for the next level. Last year, Zusi, Cameron, and parkhurst burst onto the scene. Not to mention it provides valuable training time given that the mls offseason is so long. I just don't understand what klinsmann is smoking because this might be his biggest bonehead move yet. Worse, this move has no possible positive reasons; it's simply out of klinsmann's laziness if we don't have camp.


    Here's to hoping that I'm overreacting and that klinsmann will in fact have camp. Here's a look at my roster choices....bring back the huge camps

    Gk: Johnson, Rimando, Hamid, (hall)
    Fb: Beitashour, Myers, Sinovic, Pearce, Morrow, (Lade)
    Cb: Besler, Gonzalez, Berry, Hedges, John, (Soares)
    Mf: O'brien, McCarty, Diskerud, Cronin, Zusi, Beckerman, (Bedoya, Clark)
    Wg: Pontius, Adu, Gatt, Shea, Gaven, Deleon, (Duka)
    Fw: Cooper, Bruin, Wondolowski, Sapong, johnson, Gordon, Agudelo, (McInerney)


  2. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

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    I read somewhere that he was just thinking about doing some U-23 friendlies instead. If true I guess that works but I don't know why you ignore older MLS guys.
  3. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    what exactly has ever been accomplished with/by camp cupcake??
  4. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    If it were me, I would prefer a series of MLS versus Nats games. Too bad the off season isn't used for mutual conditioning and team gelling. Both sides would benefit. Teamwork would get honed.


  5. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

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    Camp Cupcake was useful when half of the USMNT was MLS or Scandinavia based.

    Now, one can easily make the US roster without either.

    Besides, the second-third string has the Gold Cup to make its stand.
  6. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

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    ask Cameron and Parkhurst.
    FlipsLikeAPancake repped this.
  7. j0osh

    j0osh Member

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    Huh?
    Klinsmann has said a hundred times now that Camp Cupcake is no longer about awarding merit based caps to MLS level players who will never have an impact with the National Team (i.e Ricardo Clark, Jeff Larentowitz). It's going to be about looking at U23 and U20 players.

    The discussion of "not having one" has more to do with playing the freindlies, which might not happen becaseu the first hex game is the first week of February. So the option right now are either.


    1.) Have a regular camp cupcake, play some friendlies (or don't), everyone goes home, coaching staff meets up with senior team a week or two later to prepare for Hex, play the first hex game

    2.) Have a late camp cupcake (late January), play some friendlies (or don't), senior team then shows up to get ready for the Hex game, scrimmages and joint training, roster trimmed down (some younger players are kept on), play the first hex game

    The camp is happening, its just a question of whther or not they will play any freindlies or if Jurgen wants to spend alot of time of the U23 guys with the Hex right around the corner.

    Missing the Olympics was a real bad look for our young guys.
    CCinGermany and Big Chil in Denver repped this.
  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

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    Was the Olympic team chosen from camp cupcake?
  9. j0osh

    j0osh Member

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    No.

    2012 Camp Cupcake was just a terribly underwhelming MLS camp. Parkhurst, Cameron, Zusi and Rimando were the only positives.
  10. Fanatical Monk

    Fanatical Monk Member+

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    So, basically we found 3 starters in the last camp cupcake? Those are the ONLY positives? Good god, what results are we expecting out of a camp? Wonder where we'd be right now without the last camp cupcake. Probably a good chance we'd be looking for the man to lead us to Russia '18

    I'm honestly trying not to be the guy that gets p.o.'ed about everything the man does. However, it's my opinion that there are plenty of decent MLS talents that need a look. Besler, Pontius, Davis, Omar, John, Bruin, Lenhart, Morrow, etc. etc. etc. We don't have the benefit of just looking at 2 or 3 dominant teams in our national league (Germany). We have to cast a wider net to find a Zusi and Cameron.
    superdave repped this.
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    This is what I'm thinking....................

    Camp cupcake is worth it if we identify one key contributor from the group. Zusi alone was enough to make last camp cupcake a worthwhile exercise..

    I don't have a problem if Klinsmann only wants to look at U23 guys, with a few older guys thrown in. We could all come up with a reasonable roster of interesting USMNT candidates made from players 23 years old or under...........................

    In the past Klinsmann has talked about treating the U23's as much more of a real team, as opposed to an ad-hoc group thrown together a couple of months prior to Olympic qualifying. Mexico certainly takes this U23 age group more seriously.
  12. bmo180

    bmo180 Member+

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    plenty of MLSers who could be useful..Brad Davis, Pontius, DeLeon, Gonzalez, Besler, John, Cooper, Bruin, Silva, Mccarty, Wondo, Gordon, Lenhart, Beitashour, Morrow, Adu, Salinas, Cronin, Demerit, Sapong, Zizzo, Berry, Feilhaber, Rolfe, Pearce, Nguyen, Myers etc....

    then you also have older Euro guys like Whitbread, Hines, and Bedoya
  13. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

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    Younger MLS players who haven't had a chance with the national team get an extended run in front of the national team coach, and then get international minutes. Its a way to see if there are fringe guys that have been overlooked that could possibly contribute to the A team.

    EVERY single year we've done this, one or two players emerge.
  14. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

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    Seeing how half our starting back line in our last two World Cup qualifiers got their debuts under Klinsmann at last year's camp cupcake, I think Jurgen is being extremely short sighted. Throw in Graham Zusi for good measure too.

    He's basically saying that he feels that he has already found everyone that has any chance of contributing for the next 2 years, and that's that.
  15. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

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    Considering that 30% of our starting lineup for our last two qualifiers is on that list, and I'd say you might want to re-evaluate what you consider to be "underwhelming".
  16. jond

    jond Member+

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    Jan is actually a great time for MLS to have an U23 tournament in the south. Get all the top U23 MLSers, and even guys who don't play much during the regular season going at it twice a week. Find a way to get the Wondo's and Davis's in there without compromising the youth aspect. Let them play, let them showcase their talent. It would improve MLS. NT scouts, if not JK himself would most likely watch.

    With JK setting up training stints for the top MLSers already in the NT pool, and hopefully that turns into outright loans for 2-3 months, cupcake as it was is less important. It's MLS who needs to find a way for it's better players, both old and young to get into a competitive environment during the off season. After taking off Nov and Dec for many players, there's no reason not to have a month long tournament after 1-2 weeks training for MLS players.

    I get the impression MLS counts on cupcake for it's top players/prospects to get some action during the off season. What else does MLS do for a Wondo, a Gordon, a Davis, a Pearce, an Agudelo? Cupcake might help a handful of MLSers but does nothing for most of the league.

    I have no problem with JK using Jan to prepare for the Hex. He'll obviously bring in a few prospects and guys on the cusp, but for the most part it's on MLS to come up with better off season training, in a competitive environment.

    Now, I do think there's positives to the original cupcake model, but the bigger issue for me is that there's nothing else for these players if JK alters the plan, and that's on MLS. If JK doesn't call in a Davis, what is MLS doing for him? If JK doesn't call in Agudelo, Salgado, Bunbury, Sapong, Villareal, Bruin, what is MLS for doing for them? And on and on and on.
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  17. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    I wouldn't mind a more concerted effort to get U23's into the January Camp, and less guys called in that are simply being rewarded caps for a good MLS season even if they'll never have a chance to gain a starting role with the senior national team.

    But there are clearly guys who fall past the U23 mark that could have a great impact on the mens team in the coming years.
  18. bmo180

    bmo180 Member+

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    what would our all u-23 team look like anyway?

    GK-Hamid?, Johnson, Macmath
    DF-Brooks, Hedges, Okugo, Packwood, Chandler, Garza?.... Sheanon Williams, Soares, Morales
    MF-Williams, Diskerud, Corona, Gatt, Shea, Gyau, Kitchen, DeLeon, Silva....Rowe, Joya, Cascio
    FW-Jozy, Boyd, Bruin, Adu, Mcinerney, Wooten, Agudelo.....Wenger, Bunbury
  19. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

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    Keep in mind that it wouldn't be a FIFA date, so guys like Diskerud, Gatt, Gyau, Jozy, Boyd most likely wouldn't get released by their clubs.
  20. HeMan

    HeMan Member

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    Then why not go with a U-23 camp and a senior camp?

    Old Farts
    GK Hall, Kennedy, Rimando
    DF Beitashour, Myers, Morrow, Sinovic, Besler, Gonzalez, John, Pearce
    MF McCarty, Beckerman, Clark, Gaven, Bedoya, Zusi
    FW Wondolowski, Sapong, Johnson, Gordon, Cooper, Pontius

    ---------------Pontius----------Johnson-------------------
    ---------------------Wondolowski--------------------------
    ---------------Bedoya------------Zusi----------------------
    ----------------------Beckerman---------------------------
    Morrow------------------------------------------Beitashour
    ----------------Besler------------Gonzalez----------------
    ------------------------Rimando--------------------------

    Bench: Kennedy, John, Myers, McCarty, Gaven, Gordon, Cooper


    Young Guns
    GK Johnson, Hamid, MacMath
    DF Hedges, Okugo, Lade, Williams, Berry*, Soares*, M. Farfan*, Loyd*
    MF Kitchen, Diskerud, Shea, DeLeon, O'Brien*, Cronin*,
    FW Agudelo, Bruin, McInerney, Adu, Duka, Gatt

    -------------------Bruin----McInerney----------------
    Shea------------------------------------------------Gatt
    ----------------Diskerud----------O' Brien-------------
    Lade-----------------------------------------------Williams
    ------------------Berry------------Hedges--------------
    ---------------------------Johnson---------------------

    Bench: Hamid, M. Farfan, Okugo, Cronin, DeLeon, Duka, Agudelo
    bmo180 repped this.
  21. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    I agree, it is silly to eliminate it. Making it a U23 doesn't make sense to me. MLS/American players are late bloomers.
  22. bmo180

    bmo180 Member+

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    that would be a good idea, set up friendlies for both Senior and U23s
  23. j0osh

    j0osh Member

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    Maybe underwhelming gives the wrong conotation, but check out the qualifier to my comment. I thougth some of the fringe talent that was called werent very good picks..they were/are never going to contribute to the national team, so whats the point in calling up some late-ish career MLS squad players, as its pretty well established that alot of those guys were just there cause, just because... lets spend more of the little time available working with guys who still have the potential to be great rather than just looking at serviceable league players who probably arent international quality. There should have been more that 5 U23 players called in IMO..and 3 of the 5 had already been used by Klinsman/Bradley. These are supposed to be players next in line for the senior team.

    We found 2-3 good rotational/bench players and one full team starter in a pretty shallow position, that should be the goal everytime with these camps
  24. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

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    It's not a FIFA date, so clubs aren't obligated to release players, and a lot of the bigger Euro leagues are still in session, so they would never release their players.

    You need to fill out the roster. So yes, while there is some roster filler there, I don't think you throw the baby out with the bath water.

    I mean, what are you expecting, 11 new starters to emerge from every camp cupcake?

    There simply aren't enough friendlies left on the schedule to give some of these fringe players minutes to see if they can contribute as it is. Throwing one or two of them out the window on a whim is stupid beyond stupid.
  25. j0osh

    j0osh Member

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