Philosophically, I can't see the difference between 16 and 17 year olds playing HS for 2 months vs 18- 22 year olds playing college for 3 months and then returning to their DAs. For all the criticism of college soccer, you'd think the MLS DA's wouldn't want the guys playing in college.
The DA program is not at a stage yet where they can offer alternatives to College soccer like they can do with HS soccer. In time, that may also become an option, who knows.... There also needs to be a financial incentives - earn money, play DA/MLS while attending College as either full-time or part-time student. Many players are able or allowed to do just that in other countries in the rest of the World.
YONKO's response to SheHateMe is what I was going to say. I am sure MLS teams would be signing loads more DA players to reserves if the rosters, salary cup, and reserve league were expanded. For now, College is the best route unless they want to sign kids and loan them out like Spurs and Man United do - but not sure if MLS clubs can afford it and not sure other North Am clubs are necessarily willing to make the MLS base salary.
So why not have the DA's say "for those of you who are interested we will continue training through the HS season. If you would like to forgo the HS season we will provide the appropriate training environment for you." This would also address YONKO's "gradual " approach to a true academy. If, after those two months, the kids returning are behind those that stayed you will have even more choose to skip HS in the future As for BMOC- I was not advocating it as a "good" reason for HS. The question was "why would a kid want to play anyway?" And around here HS games average from 100-1000. I have never seen more than 75 at a DA game and that includes the next teams waiting to get on the field! The practical part of the "be a star" aspect is the confidence gained in that new role. I know YANKO says "just work harder with the DA and you will be a star". I think he knows that is not true.(preemptive apologies for assuming I know your mind) Messi's teammate can work til he is blue and he is never going to be Messi. I have seen numerous players come back to DA (or what ever higher level) with more confidence and therefore more effectiveness having been a "star" at a lower level. One reason they send major leaguers to AAA ball or have players play with the reserves
One of the reason they are going to 10 month is to spread out the matches. My son plays on a DA and is done after one game a weekend after the second game of the weekend he is wiped out. He is in great shape so that is not a factor. High School was fun but come on it is crap. Yes, some schools have some talent, but come on, a majority of the teams are just kick and chase. If you want to become the BMOC then join the football team like he did and kick the game winning field goal in front of 5000 screaming fans you want to talk about pressure.
In no way, shape, or form does MLB send players to AAA so they can "learn to be a star." C'mon.... HS soccer is NOT conducive to the elite soccer player development.
My understanding is that that is, to a limited extent, what will occur. The post that started off this thread quoted a letter sent from Match Fit to DA participants, which said in relevant part: "Players receiving aid towards their schooling will be able to be added on a waiver at the end of the high school season (Nov 1st). There will be a limit to the amount of players being able to be added at the end of the high school season and will be at the discretion of the club. No player without a waiver can be added to a roster following Sep 1st." You can't have half the team skipping out on the DA during the HS season, as that would undermine the ability of the program to meet its objectives for the remaining players, but you could have a few players play in HS during the HS season without adversely affecting the rest of the DA team, and this provision reflects that. I'm not sure why it's limited to "players receiving aid towards their schooling"--why should kids attending public schools, or kids attending private schools who don't require financial aid, not be eligible for these waivers. And I would certainly understand if individual DA clubs decided they weren't going to grant any waivers at all because they are running a 10-month program and they only want players who are willing to commit fully to the program they are running, but the waiver process opens the possibility that some kids can elect 8-month DA if both they and their clubs are willing.
It may depend on the club (and how close other DA clubs are to your club). Consider the Sounders DA team (part of the NW Division, which has already implemented 10-month DA). Here's their schedule: http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/37416866/37418077-37416960/TEAM.html Lots of two-game weekends, because they're far away from most other DA clubs. In contrast, check out the Nomads DA team schedule. (They're in the SoCal Division, which has also adopted 10-month DA): http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/37416866/37418058-37416960/TEAM.html They have many fewer two-game weekends, because the SoCal clubs are so close together, which makes day trips feasible.
In some ways the DAs are saying that. But you also have to keep in mind that the DAs are investing time and money into these players. They want a 10 month commitment from the players. If some choose not to commit to that period and rather spend 2-3 months playing HS soccer, then the DA has every right to choose other players who are willing to commit to the full 10 month period. We know that there would be reasons for some players to choose to play HS soccer, regardless if these reasons are "good" or not. Everyone is free to make their own choices for whatever reason they see fit. At the same token, the DAs are free to make their choice not to rely and invest in these players for their program, but rather choose players who are not going to play HS. Your analogy doesn't quite work like that though. Messi may be the main star at Barca, but there are also other star players like Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, etc. Plus in any given game someone else can become "the star of the moment/game". Messi doesn't create and score all the goals by himself nor does he win all the games by himself. Take for example the last two games vs Real M - Puyol, Abidal, Pedro and Alves had "star moments", Messi did too. The same thing can happen at any DA team. Players should strive for that, regardless of how impossible it may seem. And if they don't want to, don't have the drive or just give up because they don't see the point in trying (the coach just prefers certain group of players), then by all means go ahead and play HS soccer. But then don't go back to the DA and ask to play or be part of the program. Try some non-DA clubs, there are plenty of good ones still. No big deal. But there are also a lot of players who go to HS soccer from the DAs with the attitude that they will be the "star" for their HS team. Where does that confidence come from?
No,as I said- to gain confidence and be a better player in the Majors and this they absolutley do. "Go take some at bats at AAA and get your confidence" I think I am just going to have to agree to disagree here. I think that some very good, very committed players will have the option of playing in DA taken away from them because of their desire to play HS. I do not think that that desire necessarily shows a lack of commitment to their game, soccer future , etc. Some disagree. I think that it is possible for HS soccer to have some possitive attributes- I have seen players gain confidence playing at a different level and return as more effective players to the higher level. Again, some disagree I make no argument that HS is the place where top talent is developed. I address the "value of HS" merely to balance what I think is the main point which I have made before and which I think we fundamentally disagree on- The benefit of this decision to the majority of players does not balance the detriment it causes. I do not want good players forced out of DA: " I love my DA team, it is a high level and I learn, am challenged and contribute on the field. I love my HS team, I play with my friends, get to be a leader on the field, and get some positive strokes in town. Now I have to choose cause they won't let me do both. Worse, if I choose town I am "not a committed soccer player" and if I choose DA I am "a selfish player who turned his back on his town and friends." Not great place for a kid. But life demands tough choices. This should not be one, especially when the benefit is questionable. There has also been a lot of talk re "investment by clubs" etc. Remember that the majority (significant majority) of DA players pay to play. The Pro affiliated academies are the exception. Is this a step to demand more $$ ( longer season= you need to pay more?) If I read the exemption policy it only applies to those (private school?) kids who are required to play sports in school. Can a club grant an exemption to a kid just because they want to? Extend DA to 10 months but allow kids to choose. As I said, if it makes that much difference in development, this will all be moot in a year or two.
Well said, socfan60. I also think academics comes into play for kids that are in the top of their class, taking AP classes, etc. and soccer has quite a few of these. They're thinking full ride first (even though we know those dollars are tough to come by) and pros second. Heck, some guys don't even mind being red shirted so they can start their masters on scholarship, but those are the select few. I remember seeing Brady Wahl playing in the playoffs 2 seasons ago for Geneva (IL) I think. Saw him score on a cross field feed on a volley just outside the box while running full speed and then rising to kick it upper 90 far side. Stood there for about 10 seconds with my mouth open. And he seemed to enjoy that time with his team mates as much anything he could have done. He then started with the Fire reserves while still finishing his senior year and then played right up until heading to Ohio State. I bet we see him again in the years to come, but the point is I could not imagine how this type of player could be held back by the HS experience. Just showed me how exciting it was for the kids.
They do have a choice - play HS soccer or DA soccer. If their seasons overlap its a logisticaly nightmare to allow a player to play both. Respect the team they choose and commit to it for the season.
If kids want to play HS fine, there are lots of good non-academy clubs. To me providing a higher developmental rung actually gives kids more choices and gives those who are gifted a better chance of becoming pro, which is more important than hurting players feelings. The fact that some kids like HS is meaningless. Its the equivalent of showing deference to a HS kid because they prefer basket weaving instead of AP Calculus.
I'm just going to focus on the bold parts. First bold. The benefits are not questionable at all! The DAs provide better training, better environment, better competition and better College recruitment possibilities. They also provide better chances for pro career. If there is anything questionable, it is the benefit of playing HS soccer. However, for some players it may make more sense. The DAs are willing to take their chances. I would be too if I was in their shoes. Second bold. Excluding the MLS DAs, there are many other DAs that have scholarships and sponsors which allow players to play without paying much or in some cases pay nothing at all. In addition the phrase "investing in the players" doesn't mean only money. These DAs invest time, effort and coaches into these players. Third bold. Extend the DA season to 10 months but allow players to choose? This is exactly what is happening. Players can choose - play DA or play HS soccer. Seems like you are still confused about the "choice" part.
No he understands "choice". He just thinks the players should get to choose which practice/game they want to attend while playing for both teams - basically doing a disservice to BOTH teams! I coach. I've coached mid-level teams and my players played HS and club. Why? Because we aren't elite. These are mid-level players that just want to play soccer and have fun with it. Yep, some go on to play college, and some go on to play for elite youth teams. I coach u12 this year "top" of their age and u11 last year - same team. They all played on their elem school team. No prob. They are young and fit, and it didn't impact our team at all. BUT, I've also coached elite players and no way were they allowed to put another team first. The time I put in as a coach, the club invests in them with training space and equipment, the amount of players that travelled to join the team from out of town - no way are players putting a middling high school team first. It isn't fair to the team, or club that is investing in them.
Good Post. Can you imagine a starter on a team going up to his coach after practice. Hey coach I have this problem I'm playing for another team in another league and I can't come to practice on Tuesday or Thursday, but I can squeeze you guys in on Monday and Wednesday. Oh and because alot of the games are at the same time I'll only play for you guys every other weekend. And because on the other team I play a different position I'd really like for you to change me to midfielder so I can get more touches on the ball, and because I'll be really tired playing so much and driving so much I won't be able to work too hard for you guys.............and so on....Those who advocate the player should be able to 'choose' to play both HS and DA doesn't understand logistically when the seasons coincide it can't be done. There is no choice between one or the other or both, it has to be one or the other. The player needs to fully commit to one team.
*it's also an invaluable life lesson - kids today are far too sheltered/protected when it comes to this. haha, my little sis-in-law being the perfect example!
I think you are attacking a suggestion that no one is making. The regions that do 8-month DA take a break during the HS season so as not to conflict with HS soccer. Regions with 10-month DA don't take such a break; that's why they require their players not to play for the HS team. In neither case do DA seasons conflict with HS soccer. My understanding is that when socfan60 says that players ought to get a choice, he is stating that if the 10-month model is adopted, they ought to be allowed to skip DA and play HS during the HS season. As noted above, my understanding is that clubs will actually be allowed to grant waivers that would permit a limited number of players to do this (at least for fall HS soccer; I don't know how this would work in regions where HS soccer is played in the winter or spring). It is, of course, possible that a club would elect not to grant any such waivers.
^How can you have a 10 month season, but then lose a bunch of players for 2 months mid-season to HS soccer? Where are you going to get replacement players from? Do you play those games with less players? I simply can't fathom this such strict commitment to these school teams. And still no one is willing to answer me why you'd put all that time, financial, and physical commitment that one does for DA on the line by playing HS soccer. The pure cost involved with DA, to me, precludes any risk-benefit of playing HS soccer. The financial risk is too great.
^How can you have a 10 month season, but then lose a bunch of players for 2 months mid-season to HS soccer? Where are you going to get replacement players from? Do you play those games with less players? And still no one is willing to answer me why you'd put all that time, financial, and physical commitment that one does for DA on the line by playing HS soccer. The pure cost involved with DA, to me, precludes any risk-benefit of playing HS soccer. The financial risk is too great.
I hope you all understand also that many of these DA squads have over 30 kids on them with only 18 rostered for games at any given time with the rest getting no game time, not even MIRL games. I don't think anybody suggested that they do both during the HS season, but do HS if they want and go back in November. There are also elite clubs that play at the same level as these DA clubs that have 6-8 kids going to one high school and playing there in order to get titles for their schools. That's their choice. If you're from the Chicago area, just look at the number of kids from Nequa Valley that are on college rosters all around the Midwest and TK is a Fire Academy coach. So from a parent's perspective, at some schools that have excellent programs, like NV, there is no downside.
^good HS programs are exception, not rule. If they have a working relationship with DA then so be it. Especially if it's an MLS DA they have a working relationship with. But then I'll come back with "I thought DA stood for development academy not dominant academy"....haha, ya, I know, that was bad, but why are they stacking these teams to "win titles" when it's not supposed to be about that? Regardless....the proof will be in the pudding. Many DA's have said "no HS soccer." What will be telling is if these teams continue, or start, to develop players for pro/university soccer and remain competitive in the DA showcase/championships etc....