This means that it's hard for me to see why a coach would focus on HS instead of DA, because, as this comment points out, there's a third option: focus on the strongest clubs that aren't in the DA. I would expect coaches who choose not to focus on DA to focus on these clubs, not the high schools for which those clubs' members play for. And there will be even more reason to focus on those clubs if the number of players who could have gone with DA clubs, but choose not to, increases as a result of the move to a 10-month DA.
Ha ha, that's a whole different argument though. But for the sake of this discussion I used the word "elite". If you mean college scouts/coaches, then they look at strong non-DA clubs even now, because there are good players who are not part of any DA programs for various reasons. It goes like this. Colleges recruit from: 1. DA clubs 2. Strong non-DA clubs 3. HS Also they might look at some players in HS that they have already seen several times at DA or non-DA games/tournaments/events, just so they can have a full info on the player they are scouting.
Yes, I agree completely. Which is why I thought that the claim in a previous post that some coaches were focusing on HS and ignoring DA was quite strange. Even if such a coach was focusing on kids who aren't playing in DA--and if you look at rankings like TDS' Top 100, you'll find plenty of non-DA kids included--he wouldprobably spend most of his time scouting the non-DA clubs those kids play for instead of attending HS matches.
Another thing to consider is the fact that most college scouts don't have the time and financial ability to scout HS, between scouting at all DA and non-DA events.
A novice soccer fan like me can see the biggest change right now needs to be between 18-22. We send the majority of our players to play college soccer for a 12-16 week season against a mixed batch of players. The rest of the world has their players competing all year round with top talent, training and playing vs the best. Four years of not enough and then they get drafted to the MLS, most have been failed by the system at that point. In turn this can only be good for players 16-18, training and playing against top talent year round if we really want to have world class players.
Whoa Cowboy, it starts WAY, WAY earlier than that. The biggest change that needs to happen in USA soccer is at age 14 and 15 year the better kids need to train with pro clubs. While MLS is developing this, there are going to be maybe 30 +/- clubs with development academies in the end at that age. In Spain, there are 500 pro clubs, and almost all of them have youth teams. Until this changes, we'll just get a smattering of good players, a few Dempsey/Donnovans and that's about it. Check the final 32 Champions League teams and look at the number of 18 to 23 year old players on those rosters. There isn't as single player in the USA that age who could make any one of those rosters. That is how far behind we are. Something needs to change, and that something is intense selection and training begins at 14/15 in the rest of the world, while we're all here focused on college. Anyone see the semi-final match between Creighton and UNCC? It was painful to watch, just garbage among 18 to 23 year olds. A handful of players come out of college to the pros, this "ain't" basketball or football. We need change and let's hope Klinsmann is forceful enough to make something happen.
Many coaches have a network of former players or former colleagues/coaches that do go to hs games to watch a player or two of interest.
In terms of competition program for that age group (18-22), you are right, we need something different, something better. But in terms of coaching and developing young talented soccer players we need changes earlier in the age groups. And the biggest change that needs to occur is in the mentality of the people involved. That change needs to start and be dictated from the top - USSF and MLS. The standards need to be set, enforced and rewarded accordingly (financially). College soccer is a good thing as far as providing athletes with opportunities to earn degree while playing their favorite sport. But it will not lead to making better professional players with which US can compete at the World stage. The path of the top professional player starts early and goes through many stages before arriving at the final product. In Europe and S.America the formula has been used, tweaked and perfected over many many decades and it is proven to work and be the right one. However, those young players in this kind of system have financial incentives to pursue the professional career instead of college education. Or, in Europe at least, they also have the option to combine the two - being or trying to be professional soccer player and getting college education at the same time. The tradition in US of the college student-athelete (note that "student" comes first) is very deep and strongly integrated into the mind of many people and parents. And given that US teenagers are pretty dependent on their parents' preferences, choices and encouragements, I doubt that this will change. I will one up you and say that it starts even earlier than that. That may be the case with some, not all. But even when that is the case, with limited spots and money available, who do you think will get the nod? A player from a strong DA (and even non-DA) club scouted first hand by the coach or a HS player scouted second-hand by the college coach's assistant/former player/former colleague? Who would you pick, a player you have scouted personally from a DA club/event (and you like) or a HS player who has been scouted and recommended by someone you know (regardless of the scouting track record for talent of that "someone")? And how can you really compare them when they play in different competitions? Keep in mind that most college coaches are very sure of themselves to be right most of the time, if not all the time, ie. they have enough confidence in their own scouting "eye". I don't know about you, but I'm the type of person to trust my own judgement on a player than someone else's, whomever that someone else may be. Having said all that, a college coach "may" find the time to see a HS player himself if he has been highly recommended by someone who is very trustworthy and has a very good track record. But those are special cases and very rare IMO.
Here is my experience - I have attended about 100 HS games over the past 4 years and have seen exactly 2 colleges coaches. In both cases the college coach was there to show some love to an Acad player they had already identified and recruited through Acad soccer. Both these coaches were already in the area of the HS game and didnt travel every far. Between Dev Acad Showcase and League games, about 100 college coaches have attended games over the past couple of years. College coaches have attended Dev Acad training. I've never heard of a college coach attending a HS training session. A college coach from out east is not going to leave his team in mid season to fly to Chicago to scout a HS game. Heck, in my area local college coaches are far too busy during their season to care about a HS game, even if it is 2 miles away. These same college coach will turn out in droves for a Dev Acad Showcase. On the boys side, the recruiting priority path would be something like: Dev Acad, top non Acad Club tourneys, College camps, almost everything else and then HS. Most college coaches don't even bother to talk to HS coaches while lots of college coaches call Acad coaches. Our local HS charges a fee for "optional" summer training and summer league games. Our local HS charges an additional fee for fall HS soccer. About $700 total. This fall our HS team averaged about 5 students per game eventhough the HS team was pretty good by HS standards. I attended 2 college games this fall and both crowds were over 1,000 with mostly students watching. Neither college team made the NCAA tourney. A handful of kids who skip HS soccer actually might not miss much socially and might not spend an additional penny versus Acad soccer. If the goal is to play college soccer at a great academic school in front of 1,000 students then Dev Acad (or top club) soccer is the route and not HS. All that said, my kid chose to play HS soccer and took a pass on optional fall Dev Acad sessions. If he had been forced to choose then he would taken about 10 seconds to decide to skip HS soccer in favor of Dev Acad.
Nicely said and good to read. I know your area and you are right. It has been a while since you posted.....hope all is well with you and your son. Has he chosen a College already and committed? Where is he playing in Winter and Spring? Academy or non-Academy?
Pretty glad to see someone come out on the other side of "it's great to be on their High School team, part of the high school experience." In Football, basketball, baseball, whatever, maybe, but the experience is a couple of kids watching and the parents, that's about it. They don't need the high school to understand what "team" is all about.
MUST SEE! NEW Youth Soccer Talent. Great player. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj03nAuOEFA"]MUST SEE! David Ako Abunaw III (Goals & Assists) 2011 - YouTube[/ame]
Our high school games usually had many times the attendace of our club games. My opinion is still give the kids freedom of choice. I think soccer is the only hs sport with this club vs hs conflict and basketbball, vball, softball, baseball club teams are usually much better than the hs team.
Soccer club teams are usually much better than Hs teams too! If you are comparing elite soccer to high school. I am referring to teams that are a level below USSDA. There are always exceptions...in ever sport...where a HS team will be better than an elite team. But that's the exception.
Much of this one comes down to the size of the school. More students you get the more likely you get good soccer players. Some HS barely have enough to field a Varsity and JV team, while others have 200 kids show up for tryouts.
I've been on both sides of this issue, but would agree the better training will come from programs such as DA, though I'm not convinced that the DA is the best answer to the development of US soccer. Many players will still never get tapped simply because the DA exclude the majority of the the US. Look at where the clubs are located. Too bad for those top players from Portland OR, or Des Moines or Nashville or Vegas or Albuquerque. Kind of reminds me of same problem a small state as mine (MD) has with ODP. Kids from the either end of the state have a 3 hour drive to practice. By looking at the ODP rosters, you'd think they only play soccer in the middle of our state. I really don't see how the USSF is trying to address this. They've developed a great training and development schedule for all the ages, and are attempting to create programs in which to deliver that training. When you think about it, even D1 college soccer hampers a player's development. I wouldn't be surprised to one day see the DA U21 and U23 teams.
You'll never see DA u21 or u23 teams unless DA extends into PDL. Neither of which seems at all likely. Individual DA programs should be offering a continuation beyond u18 though and have their ladder peak at at least semi-pro. Ideally.
MLS reserve teams are needed to bridge the gap between DA and pro level. HS and College soccer is not the answer to developing better pro players. It has never been and it will never be. They do have their purpose though. I still see no reason why players can't attend college (but not play college soccer) and play pro at the same time.
Why all the attention to the Super Draft then and all the college players? Since the MLS promotes this and there seems to be very few players coming out of their own DA or PDL teams in comparison, its a bit confusing I think. I understand many of the college players also have some PDL or MLS DA relationships too, so might it not be possible for kids to have it both ways? At least from what I've seen, the kids with the grades opt for the college route at some especially fine schools, while the kids without the grades go the DA>PDL route. Would seem academic/career potential helps make some of these decisions which only seems right.
I full agree that MLS reserves is the way forward. And yes, if the player has desire there is no reason they can't attend university while playing pro. Happens all the time....
For many many reasons, but I'll take a stab at a few. 1. Media exposure. 2. Traditionalism...(Americanization of pro sports movement to pro ranks) 3. There are plenty of areas of USA/Canada that aren't covered by MLS and thus those kids miss out in their youth but can get exposure through college. 4. Very few players out of own DA's? Compared to college picks? I don't have full facts and figures, but read these two articles about teams that have promoted from youth and teams that have drafted. The numbers of kids sticking around after being drafted is very low, but the number from DA that actually PLAY is also very low so far. Those numbers will do and have already begun to increase re: HG playing time. Home Grown Signings Article: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/c...ar-after-liberalization-of-MLS-homegrown-rule Superdraft Analysis: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?2415-The-SuperDraft-in-numbers Take from those articles what you will. HG signings are the way forward....
I just checked - every one of MLS' Generation Adidas signings this year (other than Dom Dwyer, who grew up in England) played high school soccer. Billy Schuler and "Cobi" Span, who left before graduation to sign in Sweden, also played in high school. And at the higher levels? Among others, Landon Donovan, DaMarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu, Tim Howard, Stuart Holden, Brad Friedel, Carlos Bocanegra, Sacha Kljestan, Maurice Edu, Charlie Davies, Alejandro Bedoya, and Edson Buddle all played high school soccer at some point. So did this guy. I don't think the answer to your question really supports the point you were trying to make.