Okay, I referee in high school by NFHS rules in California, but I'm visiting my dad in Colorado Springs, and there is a girls high school match on cable here. It is Fort Carson vs. Palmer. But, I'm seeing something really weird. It appears there are three referees on this match! Not a single one of the three has a flag, and it seems the "assistant" referees aren't staying with the 2nd to last defender, as if they are slightly cheating off and stepping into the field of play to get closer to play. The second half just started, and yup, same thing. Assistants are ON the field of play while the ball is in play, and none have a flag! I've never seen anything like it. Is this really a thing in Colorado high school soccer? Does NFHS support a three person referee system with no assistants?m Very weird...
Okay, now there was a free kick for blue, just outside of white'smpenalty area. The Center seemed in a standar position. But, the leading referee was ON the field of play, and the trailing referee was also on the field of play, within fifteen yards of the kick, and obviously not remaining in traditional AR position at the halfway line. What the heck? The ticker says Division 2 so I'm assuming this is a higher level of p,ay, but it seems like the referee system is just made up. Am I seeing an anomaly, or is Colorado really doing triples?
Look at the NFHS Rules Book. There is the "Double-Dual System (DDS)." Page 88 in 2006-7 book which for some reason was on the top when I reached for a book. Three referees, three whistles. I haven't read it in detail, however.
I'll have to take a look when I get back to California. We certainly don't train for this "dual double" system in our association. While I've seen doubles done, I haven't even heard of the dual double until now. Heck, I've never even had to do anything but a standard three referee team with a referee and two assistants, so even a double seems odd to me. This three referee system with all three on the field is bizarre to watch...
I'm curious, why would anyone do this? If you've got three, it's not like the school is saving on referee fees, as is usually the excuse with doubles...
Sigh. I will not allow the double dual system in my state. In theory, it would improve game control, in the sense that more people can call fouls. Of course, you can get that effect if the referee reigns in his own ego and lets the AR's help him with fouls that they have seen. What difference does it make who actually blows the whistle? In practice, the game will be refereed at the lowest referee's ability level. It's bad enough on duals having both referees blow the whistle at the same time and point in opposite directions. But to have three different referees each trying to set their own standard for what is a foul and what is misconduct is a recipe for disaster, IMHO.
High school assigners in my state are only authorized to assign 3-man DSC crews for Varsity games. Only time a dual is allowed is when on of the referees does not show up and a suitable replacement found.
I am firmly in the "I'll just worry about the things I have some control over" camp. We have plenty of horror stories locally about simultaneous whistles pointing in opposite directions. We also have a few zealots who swear that moving the side officials onto the field adds to the command presence of the crew (which, I'm led to believe, was the reason the system was created?) Practically speaking, I've found that it's usually not a big issue. Good refs make it work, and stinky ones are gonna suffer no matter what. I am left with just 2 enduring, but very personal impressions: 1) There are some situations where I feel very comfortable flagging and allowing for the possibility of the CR waving me down. With a whistle, I don't get that option. 2) 3 whistles looks funny. It separates us (unnecessarily) from the traditions of the game. And I'm quite fond of those. Of course, the look of FL soccer is impacted MUCH more by the fact that we play 99% of our games on skinny football fields. If I could only change one thing, that would be it.
Different states have different policies. In ours, it really comes down to 1. what do the schools request (i.e. what are they willing to pay for) and 2. how many referees are available locally. We have some associations that only have enough for duals on varsity games and solos on sub-varsity games in the afternoons. Some other associations can get three referees on even freshman games.
The HS coaches in my area made sure the double-dual (*) went away. They much preferred the standard diagonal system of control. In at least one state, beside having 3 referees with whistles, they rotated positions partway through the match. (*) - What kind of wacky name is that, anyway? Wouldn't double of a dual be 4 referees?
That's what I think, too! So a few years ago, I get a call from the local high school assignor. She says that an athletic director called her, saying that he needed to arrange for officials for their playoff game. "Okay." "Yeah, we need four officials." "Really? We don't usually do four officials on first round playoff games." "No, that's our league's SOP, two on the lines and two on the nets." "Let me get back to you." She asks me, "Is this a double dual or something?" I said "A double dual is only three officials and it's not legal in Oregon." So, nice guy that I am, I called the AD. "I'm calling about the officials for your soccer playoff game." "You need to call so and so at X high school. I'm the volleyball guy for the league." He'd called the wrong commissioner for officials! I still would have loved to have four soccer officials, in yellow pinestripes and cleats, go marching into his gym to referee his playoff game.
It's two duals that share the up-field referee. I would say the least unusual thing about it is the name.
So you must think that those basketball officials are so silly with their three whistles on the court and each of them calling fouls.
I never said "silly." From a basketball perspective, at least in our state and quite a few others, high school uses two officials, not three. At the college and pro levels, yes, they use three. Which brings me back to my argument about why not to use the double-dual system in high school. The problem is talent, or lack thereof, in the official ranks. The talent pool of high school officials is pretty thin and that seems to be true most places in the country. YMMV. To put a first year official on a boys' varsity game with a third year official and a 10 year veteran is an engraved invitation to controversy and problems. The skill and knowledge range of the officials is just too wide to set a level of play that the players can understand and adjust to. It would almost be better if all three officials were first years! Again, YMMV, but around here, a high school basketball official won't see a varsity game, except as a spectator, for 8 to 10 years, because they have enough officials to cover all the games with veterans. Soccer doesn't seem to have that luxury, at least not at the high school level. In fact, not having enough referees period, never mind skill level, is the main reason that we do duals in high school. There simply aren't enough bodies to put three people on most of the games. And, as La Rikardo said, it's a different sport with different needs, just like why baseball doesn't let the bases umpire(s) call balls and strikes and why gridiron football referees all have whistles but they also have very delimited primary responsibilities. e.g. the line judge just doesn't call pass interference. And the guy that rakes the pit in track & field doesn't tell the head official whether the jumper's foot was across the board.
I've been reading this forum for a while, but I had to respond to this post. In my state (PA), the DSC is banned in high school games. The only officiating systems allowed are dual (JV and some varsity) and double dual (varsity and playoffs). I'm not certified for high school (and I'm also a new USSF ref) but I do know that refs running a double dual also rotate in-game so each ref gets equal 1/3 of the game in the "center" position. The local paper asked the director of officiating for all sports whether PA would be adopting "FIFA-style" refereeing, and he responded with something to the effect of, "no our system is better because the referees are equal and get to box in play." Oh, they also still use the old football-style signals, too.
WOW! This year, I had the personal pleasure(?) of working a game with an official doing his very first game ever. Ever. As in never having done a U8 line or anything. It was a 2 game set. First the girls varsity, followed by the boys varsity. In the first game, he was SR1 (side referee near the benches). I was SR2 and almost died when, 10 min into the first half, I could see him directly across the field from me. (Hey, at least he was hustling!) The poor CR. In the second game, I was CR and put him at SR2. I told him to stay in the hip pocket of 2LD and only whistle for offside or VC. To his credit, he kinda pulled it off. The only explanation? We have way more games to cover than (decent) refs to do the job. But, to be completely honest, working with refs that don't have sufficient experience is NOT the biggest problem we have. It's working with (old, overweight) guys who don't run.
...which, in our state, many refs believe was a big part of why the double-dual was instigated. Got three guys with a whistle? Great! The guy in the middle doesn't have to worry about running to cover the whole field any more. Sigh.
Thank God for some common sense and reason. This system, IMO, is a crime against the sport. There's one way to referee the game, DSC....like the rest of the world does it. Only in the US do we find such nonsense.Why is completely beyond me.
Of course there are plenty of places around the world that use only 1 referee on a match with no ARs. So, no real DSC there either.
And thats the absolute LAST resort....and still LOADS better than two referees whistling two different games in two different halfs of the field. Show me where else in the world you see two refs and maybe Ill change my mind.
IIRC, FIFA experimented with a double-diagonal model, with two CRs and two ARs, but quickly abandoned it. (10-15 yrs ago, maybe?)
Sigh. Unfortunately, the meme of "I'll cover the center circle, you take the rest" is alive and well here. Someone earlier pointed out - when you have 3 good referees, you can make the double-dual work. The best way is by letting the Center set the tone for the two assistants as to what will be allowed or not allowed and the assistants MUST follow that lead, just like you would do with the traditional DSC. Most crews that I have worked with while in the double-dual system have adopted this approach, and, generally, everyone (refs, players and coaches) walks away satisfied with the match. But, when one (or both) assistant(s) take it in their head to change the dynamic of the game, it's a mess. Just like can happen with an A/R who's not with the program in the DSC format. Given the choice, I prefer one whistle. But if I want to do high school matches, then it's the double-dual for varsity and just dual for JV.....
