Neymar vs Messi: The Adventure Continues

Discussion in 'BigSoccer Polls' started by ---Z---, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Cagalhao
    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Some posters like to compare Messi to "Neymar"

    I personally think Messi is on another level, but nonetheless lets discuss how they fared in 2012

    Messi's main accomplishment was setting a new world record for most goals ever scored in a calendar year - 90 and counting!



    Meanwhile Neymar accomplished the career defining feat of appearing on the cover of PES 2013 alongside Cristiano Ronaldo. appearing on the same page of a top player such as CR7.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    No contest, Messi wins this one in his sleep. Scoring impressive amounts of goals in Brazillian league and international friendlies is different from scoring HISTORIC amounts of goals in Europe. Unless you would argue that Brazilian league is substantially better than La Liga, at which point I'm done talking.
     
  3. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Neymar is still too young and unproven. Give him a few more years in maturity and skill progression and a ticket to Europe.
     
  4. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    Much of the Brazilian press said that Neymar was at the same level as the argentine player in 2011.

    This absurd opinion ended here with the indisputable victory of Barcelona over Santos in the final of the FIFA Club World Cup 2011.

    Neymar is the best young player in the world. But for now, does not come close to Messi.

    And in 2012, Neymar made ​​his best season in numbers, but did not play well in the decisive matches of the Copa Libertadores 2012. '' Gone'' field against Vélez and against Corinthians. Also not played well in the toughest matches of the Brazilian and neither won the Brazilian championship with Santos.
     
    MatthausSammer repped this.
  5. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Only reason they get compared is because of Messi's failures on the national team. Neymar has been on the National team for 3 years now and has been outperforming Messi, that's why the comparison.

    Also Neymar is 21 his career is just starting. By the way Barca reportedly made another offer to get him this year, for 60 million euros, and they are selling David Villa to make room for Neymar.

    Not sure Barca would make such offer for somebody they thought it wasn't on the top 20 in the world as some people here think. Actually most people here would not take Neymar over David Villa... unless of course they were Barcelona, but what do they know right?
     
  6. la saeta rubia

    Aug 1, 2010
    Argentina/España
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Neymar just voted South American player of the year Guerrero second with Ronaldinho third.
     
  7. the one and only

    Jul 15, 2011
    Serious question, do you think Neymar performed up to the standards of what was expected of him during the last COPA???
     
  8. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I can even go further.. do you think Brazil and Argentina performed up to the standards? None of them did, which speaks volumes of how competitive Copa was this time around, and how both of those countries underestimated their competition.

    Argentina finished 7th and Brazil 8th

    Just think about that.

    Individually Neymar's performance was this... 2 goals 1 man of the match in 4 matches.
     
  9. the one and only

    Jul 15, 2011
    I don't have to think about anything cause i already have my opinion on the matter and it's that he didn't perform well, you seem to think the same (in summary of everything you just wrote) without actually saying it directly.
     
  10. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I rate Neymar the same as I rate Stephan El Shaaraway or Mario Götze or, to a lesser degree. Marco Reus. Excellent, versatile young player that has the potential to be the best, but is not there yet. I'll have to see more from him during WC2014 or the CL. Plus, Barça's transfer scouting is not infallible, nor immune to hype; 30 million for Alex Sanchez, anyone? Plus the value of Brazillians are reaching unfathomable levels, since when is Lucas Moura worth 45 million?
     
  11. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    I prefer Neymar than Gotze, Reus or El Sharaaway. I think the brazilian is more talented and amazing.

    However, it is what I say: the players I mentioned are facing big teams in Europe, and playing very well while Neymar is in Brazil and disappeared in the toughest games of the Copa Libertadores 2012. It is a disadvantage for Neymar..
     
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  12. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    How in the world does Messi not get that one? Messi's reportoire of individual accomplishments for 2012 far outweigh Neymar's. He scored more goals, got more plaudits, got a Ballon D'Or, did more assists, and was in every way superior to Neymar in 2012.
     
  13. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    It must be for the best player playing in South America :unsure:
     
  14. Rivelino87

    Rivelino87 Member

    Aug 10, 2008
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Atletico Belo Horizonte
    Weird, pointless thread, considering the 5 year age difference between the players, which when speaking of football players usually equates to half a career at the top level.

    It's clear that alot of the people who offer their opinion on the quality of the Brazilian league, or Neymar's quality/being unproven are not familiar with the league. For those interested in information on how on the Brazilian league for next season, such as sites to watch the games, scheduling and team information, feel free to PM me.
     
  15. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Maybe if it was best player in South America, I could see it.
     
  16. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

    Feb 4, 2012
    Carolina PR
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Neymar is miles above shaarawy, gotze, hazard or any other wonderkid around... neymar at 20 competes with falcao, messi, ibrahimovic, cronaldo for accolades not with young prospects... he is one of the top five players in the world right now and soon will be competing with cronaldo and messi for the top spot... by 2013 ballon d'or he will be a finalist for the award

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  17. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I think, to be quite frank, we cannot say for sure if he is the best, until he plays against the best. I don't care how you slice it, any one league, unless you consider the Champions' League an actual league, does not have all the best players. La Liga, Brazillian Serie A, Bundesliga, Italan Serie A, English Premier League, they all have weak teams and they all have strong teams, just as they all have weak players and strong players. So the best way to test Neymar's mettle as among the strongest in the world would be to assemble a stage upon which he can test himself against the best, which means playing in the World Cup, where all the strongest nations flex their muscle, or playing in the Champions' League, where the richest and strongest clubs in Europe flex theirs. Almost all the strongest players in the world play in Europe because there is a bigger stage with better pay there. Hence, until he pits himself against a Barcelona, a Madrid, a Bayern, or a Dortmund, he remains an excellent player with potential to be the best. All hype, "better than Messi", or even "third-best player in the world" is premature until that point. I doubt Neymar's credentials when held up against Iniesta, Xavi, Falcao, Pirlo, even Ozil, all contenders for the third place. Remember Robinho, the next Pele? Remember Denilson? Kerlon? Adriano? Bojan? Marin? Quaresma? Even perhaps Kaka? All players criminally overhyped before they proved themselves at the highest level; Quaresma was considered more talented than Christiano Ronaldo only to disappear. A player can send shock waves through any league and still not make it at the highest level, and a player can quietly plod along in a league only to make it at a higher level. Therefore I reserve judgement until I see him with my own eyes playing against the best and thriving. The signs point to a different path though, he was ineffective against Barça, faltered against Mexico, etc. But it would be stupid of me to write Neymar off nonetheless.
     
  18. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I agree that its ridiculous and so premature to compare messi now to Neymar ...

    However in the bold part:
    1- Depends n how you rate them. If pure talent, yes Neymar is at least same if not already better than those name. But if we weight on the big cup achievement then it's different since Neymar still playing in Brazil

    2- The difference between Neymar now and those names you mentioned is that Neymar did play well and has been the KEY player for Brazil NT. Those names (at times) were neither key player nor playing good for their NT
     
  19. the one and only

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sorry but i don't agree with anything you wrote in this post
     
  20. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

    Feb 4, 2012
    Carolina PR
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    LOLOL first learn to use paragraphs, secondly you say all leagues have weak and strong teams and that champions league tournament is not a league. But then you say neymar needs to play there to prove himself. Make up your mind before you post. Thirdly you say Kaka is overrated and didnt prove himself? LOL now that's funny to be honest a ballon d'or winner hasnt proven himself.

    Neymar already played against Falcao and he out played him by a lot. And will play in 2013 vs Italy twice, England twice, France and Chile and also Spain, Uruguay, Mexico and Japan in confederation cup. Those games alone will put neymar over the top if he performs and then follow it with a great world cup. He doesnt need to go to Europe to prove anything, european bias will always say he's overrated unless he goes to one of their overrated leagues.

    Soccer is not like baseball or basketball or any other sport where you have all the talent in one league. The talent is spread all over the world in spain, russia, brasil, argentina, england, ukraine, portugal, mexico, germany, france. So there's no one league a player needs to go to prove himself. There are several leagues a player can showcase his talents to the world and become world class.

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  21. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

    Feb 4, 2012
    Carolina PR
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

    LOLOL first learn to use paragraphs, secondly you say all leagues have weak and strong teams and that champions league tournament is not a league. But then you say neymar needs to play there to prove himself. Make up your mind before you post. Thirdly you say Kaka is overrated and didnt prove himself? LOL now that's funny to be honest a ballon d'or winner hasnt proven himself.

    Neymar already played against Falcao and he out played him by a lot. And will play in 2013 vs Italy twice, England twice, France and Chile and also Spain, Uruguay, Mexico and Japan in confederation cup. Those games alone will put neymar over the top if he performs and then follow it with a great world cup. He doesnt need to go to Europe to prove anything, european bias will always say he's overrated unless he goes to one of their overrated leagues.

    Soccer is not like baseball or basketball or any other sport where you have all the talent in one league. The talent is spread all over the world in spain, russia, brasil, argentina, england, ukraine, portugal, mexico, germany, france. So there's no one league a player needs to go to prove himself. There are several leagues a player can showcase his talents to the world and become world class.

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  22. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    My point was that there are two places where he can test his mettle against the best of the best; the Champions' League and the World Cup. Until he proves himself in one of, or both of, them, I refuse to rate him higher than, say No. 20 in the world.
     
  23. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Neymar the same as or better than Xavi or Iniesta? Don't make me laugh. Xavi and Iniesta have led their teams to a CL win, two Euros, and a World Cup. Yes, they had a better supporting cast, but Neymar's supporting cast in Brazil ain't no slouches either, especially by Olympics standards. Neymar is not better than Messi, Iniesta, or Xavi. While yes, none of them were key players, they're still proving the point you cannot get caught up in the hype around extraordinarily young players.

    Neymar has yet to show his class during crunch time; Olympics, Copa, Club World Cup, etc. While Messi has had his share of underwhelming performances, he won the Olympics, won the Champions' League, and won the CWC. Neymar is still brilliant and is far more likely to be the next Pele than any other player was at the point people called them the next Pele, he just needs to show me he cuts it at a higher level, which I have little doubt he will, before I put him above the other wonder kids head and shoulder. That's all.
     
  24. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    The CL really has no top level competition until the knock-out stages, and only until the second knock-out stages you get down to the main contenders.
    Copa America, World Cup, Euro, Confed Cup are more likely where a player is going to find a place to prove himself.

    All other continental tourneys have really bad teams in them.
     
  25. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

    Feb 4, 2012
    Carolina PR
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

    LOL ok that's your bias european opinion which is ok at least you admit you are bias. You probably think that champions league is harder than the world cup and that uefa europe champions league has more quality than the world cup. But there are a lot of other tournaments players can play and prove themselves. Copa libertadores being one of them, brasilerao Serie A being another.


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