Alert: Next decades Netherlands will be the new Hungary of Europe. Once great, but slipped into mediocrity.

In 1996 Olympics the UK had only one gold medal...

 

That is again very interesting info. How did you find that NPR excerpt?

The Szymanski and Kuper book has basically the same formula, with as difference that 'previous olympics' is called 'experience' - i.e. the number of matches played/events participated.

 

It happened everywhere. Italy used heavy doping in football during 1960s. Germany from 1950s tot 1990s. Also the United States did it during 1984 and 1988 Olympics. And currently Spain is a huge suspect.

 

It is a combination of sources. Many have testified that they used heavy stuff in the 1980s and 1990s. Tony Schumacher is the most infamous case, was afraid and received heavy punishment for opening the 'doofpot'.

But everyone used doping. Also the Golden Ajax of the 1970s - but that was relatively innocent stuff, only pills and tablets. Vogts and Beckenbauer have admitted that they used blood doping, which was some heavy stuff because cycling (doping sport #1) only started to use it in 1984 (francesco moser). Beckenbauer admitted it back in 1977 and/or 1978. You can google that.

Italy also used heavy stuff and did it uncontrolled, hence many deaths among former players. You can say many things about Germans but they always prepare things well and know what they do. Grundlichkeit. Italy didn't and is now paying the price.

You can also google on Müller-Wohlfarth and his reputation. Enjoy.

Case of Spain is well known. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi are all subjected to hormone treatment and anabolic stuff (or derivatives) at a young age. Funny thing is that their cheerleader Graham Hunter was too enthusiastic, wrote about this in an intended positive light ("'La masia' best in the world", in that fashion), caused unexpectedly a fuss and retracted his comments a few days later...

 

I'm no expert but I've read in books that the Italians used dangerous stuff that caused deaths years later. However, and I'm sure about that, the Germans and Soviets, among other nations, used exactly the same medications. Only difference was that the Germans were more careful with their doses and especially their timing, which is also important. They were actually caught during 1966WC, the first World Cup where players were subjected to tests authorized by the FIFA (certain about that), but it was kept secret. Der Spiegel published a year ago but it was for a longer while known.

If you say that blood doping isn't heavy then I believe you. My memory failed in that aspect maybe.

Ajax during the 70s also used doping but that was relatively innocent - not the same medications as the Italians and hence no deaths (although the death of Rijnders is by some related to doping but that is heavily disputed). It was technically still banned and illegal though. Ajax used anyway no intravenous injections - except when injuries occurred.

 

This one makes a good point about it:

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/footba...baller-the-truth-about-footballers-and-drugs/

Not only Griffith Joyner but also Carl Lewis, Dennis Mitchell and others used it.

Doping at 1984 Olympics is all over the internet.

If you want to have a first hand testimony, watch the documentary 'the race that shocked the world'. Laboratory testers of that time, no journalists, do not make any attempt in denying it. In fact, they received orders from above - the name F. Don Miller is dropped by one of the former leading figures in the laboratory. But the same one said as final sentence in the documentary: 'it is easy to test with modern methods the samples of the past', or something along these lines. But it were still banned substances, with a clearance time (which also 'killed' Ben Johnson).

 

Mitchell also participated at 1988 Seoul.

With all due respect, I would give the benefit of doubt to the IAAF. It is well known that USA was reluctant to sign international protocols and did not allow foreign testers on their soil - i.e. WADA.

That is also in it and said by the same man. Don't know his name any more but he had a responsible function within the lab.

They, the American sport organizations, set up a testing programme in the years before the 1984 Olympics. The man who leaded this programme got some positive tests but discovered soon that this all was intended to get knowledge about clearance times and enhancing the training programmes. The figuring out of clearance times is explicitly mentioned.


Question to you:
What do you think the Italian footballers used in the 1960s? As said, it resulted in premature deaths when they reached their forties, fifties and sixties. I will look if I can find something on google.

 

http://www.german-times.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1834&Itemid=74

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=soccer&id=2902813

 

OK, if you're interested in doping in Italian football I think it is also extensively covered with references in this book:


But also this is in newspapers on the internet. It was originally published by Gazzetta dello Sport. Dont remember which stimulants they used though. Only know, as said, that other nations like Germany and USSR did the same but with much more caution (esp. in case of Germany).

 

More than one Italian player died. Picchi is the most famous and greatest one. Also a big talent died early but I can't recall his name - I thought it was a winger who died too early in his 20s.

One squad of Fiorentina saw five (or more) suspicious early deaths over the years. Remind that squads in those days were smaller and did not exceed 15-17 players. So five, maybe more (you can google it), early deaths is seen as something odd.

It is never proven, which is an important fact, but in Italy it is seen as something suspect.

 

About this thing: you can of course use it in both ways. Both as counter-measure and as 'weapon' itself.



The GDR had after all also advanced testing laboratories in their age

 

You know,

The problem is that Holland isn't great in other sports. You can say that we are great in hockey but that doesn't count. Has not the same international status as volleyball.

We used to be good in cycling but that is also laughable at the moment.

Like you said, the main problem is the lack of technique. Watched eredivisie today and foreign players like Tadic and Djuricic have a way better technique and those will not make it to a top team too - they are basically too slow.

Apart from the earlier and often mentioned brain drain, it is also a problem that players seem to get dumber. Many do not notice it because also the prestigious EPL is very dumb in their tactics but Dutch players used to be clever and intelligent. Clever in the sense of having a feeling for time, space and movement - and foreign 'experts' have related this to the fact that Netherlands is a small nation anyway that fights against wind and water so the sense for time and space was something ingrained. That appears to be crumbling. Boys like Jethro Willems, Van der Wiel, Labyad (who opted for Morocco) appear not clever at all. Luuk de Jong is also a dumb mover. Huge problem because it corrupts one of the natural advantages Netherlands had.