John McGrane discusses a Division 1 Canadian Premier League he says is being discussed to start up possibly in the next 2 years across Canada : http://www.nextsportstar.com/index.php/show/red-card-december-4th-2013/ Starts around the 35 minute mark. Interesting and the first I've heard of it.
I like the idea but how do you get around the MLS and NASL? Would any broadcaster go near it? You need strong ownership and facilities.....all the obvious ones are locked up already. Unless they have some real money behind it, any attempt at D1 will look like D3.
Anything can happen i suppose but first would have to convince MLSE to pull TFC out of MLS as well as Vancouver away from the Cascadia series. The proposed NASL cities would have to get onboard.
The MLS teams are owned by the league...the 'owners' are actually just franchise operators. MLSE could probably keep the name but I doubt the logos. NASL is easier to pull out of because the clubs are actually clubs, none of that single entity stuff. Not a very likely scenario. But I wish those involved the best of luck.
I haven't yet had a chance to watch the interview, but from the sound of it, I'm guessign that the plan is for a Canada-only D2-league? Even without the franchise situation, forget about the MLS clubs pulling out. But if FCE and Ottawa are on board, I'm guessing another four teams would make a feasible start.
Good point be kind of hard to have a true DI soccer league minus a Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal team. Hamilton, Ottawa, and Winnipeg, as well as Edmonton, and even Calgary with some work will all have pro stlye stadiums but not enough cities for a full pro legue
Victoria Highlanders pull in 2k on average for their PDL club. That's what the average USL-Pro club draws, so it's believable that they could install a pro-club there as well. Although MLS clubs wouldn't move leagues, it's not unthinkable that teams could be in place in Mississauga and Laval. Other possibilites: Halifax, Kit-Wat-Cam, London, Quebec City Not all of these would pan out, but between your list and mine that's 12 possibilities.
Can't see the MLS teams moving in the foreseeable future either. I can't remember but thought its either Moncton or Halifax that has a 10K seat stadium so maybe they could be in as well if it ever happens. Maybe some of the CFL teams are in on this, a lot of them have had new or reno'd stadiums recently and may want like OSEG to have a pro soccer team in their stadiums.
I think that you're thinking of King George V Park in St. John's. Not sure if they could support 2k average attendance, the urban conglomeration has a pop. of about 200k, but also consider that they are very remote relative to the rest of the country. A long shot, but I wouldn't knock it out of consideration. Stadiums I think are the least of the worries. Pretty much every city under consideration has at least a university stadium, a few have CFL stadiums as well. The only exception I can think of from the cities listed above is Mississauga. I think that you're right that the best bet to form clubs are CFL team owners, or even possibly NHL owners. TFC are owned by the same people who own the Leafs (and the associated lack of results, but I digress). Then there's the possibility of PDL clubs looking to 'graduate' to having a fully pro squad, while remaining in the PDL for academy purposes. Victoria gets great crowds, Winnipeg does alright, Kitchener and Thunder Bay get modestly decent draws, and London, not so much.
There may not be a stadium in Missuaga but with the Argos looking into the Peel, York, and Durham Regions to relocate and build a CFL/Soccer stadium ie. Tim Horton's Landsdowne park having a soccer club playing out of that venue is probably part of the plan. Right now an NASL or even a USL pro affiliate, Toronto Lymx from TFC,. However Canada having its own DI league could probably be on the level of the NASL My thought would be for Canada to be a part of the NASL with its own Canadian Division. I think the possibilities are all positive and the stadium situation is growing into a great positive for Canada Soccer above the D3 level.
Club soccer in Canada is growing. Whether it ultimately forms up into an all Canadian league at the D2 and/or D3 levels will depend on the benefits to the individual clubs. That is, someone would have to come up with a plan that makes it more desirable for the clubs to be in the new all Canadian league than to stay in their existing leagues (whether Canadian like the CSL or cross border like the NASL and PDL). History, geography, and population all suggest the cross boarder strategy is the one that will eventually win out for at least the D2 level but a case can be made to go all Canadian at the D3 level.
The toughest thing about an all-Canadian league is the stigma that comes with it. Unfortunately, Canadians tend to automatically view things of our own without involving the US to be inferior. The CFL is a miracle, and is fortunate that it is too well rooted in the national culture to be threatend by that stigma (and even then struggles somewhat to get respect). Otherwise I can't see how in practical terms that a cross border league is advantageous to any Canadian club, provided that there are enough other clubs to keep the quality of play at the same level, hence why the three MLS clubs would never leave that league. Surely the costs of travelling over the border would not be missed, plus the effect of currency fluctuations. With the US dollar back on the rise, that may provide inspiration for clubs like FCE and OFFC to try something domestic. It's really a matter of whether or not there are enough cities in Canada that could provide large enough crowds to financially a D2 level squad. The jury is still out on that, but I think it's well within possibility.
Stigma aside, this is what it really comes down to. There are cities that I believe can financially support (long term) a D2 squad, especially since D2 soccer is rapidly becoming more legitimate and less fly-by-night. The three best Canadian cities are taken by MLS and I don't believe D2 soccer can co-exist successfully with any of them. That means they'd have to cobble together a D2 league with the remaining largish cities. If we assume eight as the minimum number of teams for a viable league, the league would probably look something like Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, London, Kitchener, Ottawa, Quebec, and Halifax. Some of those are going to be pretty dicey propositions and the survival of the league depends on all of them succeeding. If I was about to launch a D2 team, I'd feel far more secure joining the NASL where there are already a viable number of teams in place drawing 4000 or better than I would hoping every one of my fellow Canadian owners can make a go of it. If a bunch of Canadian team slowly joined the NASL so that, say, in ten years there were six or eight Canadian NASL teams running smoothly, they could look at breaking away to make a Canadian league. At that point it would still be a business decision but perhaps one where the Canadian option might hold more appeal than it would now.
I've always thought that's how it would play out as well, although it may be a combo of NASL and USL-Pro. Size is the key factor, but other factors include whether or not a viable stadium already exists (as to build one would require more capital investment than everything else combined) as well as appeal of soccer to the general population and how many other professional sports teams already exist in the city (which is something of a double edged sword, other teams provide competition but can also provide viable ownership groups). Discounting the top three, here's a list of the largest 20 urban centres in the country: Ottawa - Gatineau 1,236,324 Calgary - 1,214,839 Edmonton - 1,159,869 Quebec - 765,706 Winnipeg - 730,018 Hamilton - 721,053 Kitchener - Cambridge - Waterloo - 477,160 London - 474,786 St. Catharines - Niagara - 392,184 Halifax - 390,328 Oshawa - Whitby - 356,177 Victoria - 344,615 Windsor - 319,246 Saskatoon - 260,600 Regina - 210,556 Sherbrooke - 201,890 St. John's - 196,966 I think it's reasonable that among these there are potentially 8 NASL/USLPro clubs to be had (in fact, two already exist). Another four of these already have PDL clubs. I still think that Mississauga at least is a viable option. It has a population on its own of over 700k, plus adding another 400k of potential fans in Brampton. With 5 million people int he GTA (a figure which does not include the nearby centres listed above), I'd say that there's plenty of room for an MLS side and a D2 side.
TFC is already building a huge state of the art training facility with plenty of pitches in Miss. They have acquired the Lynx and are attempting to have them play out of Tim Hortons. Couls the facility include a 7-10 K game stadium for the Lynx. A NASL team is looking to be down the road for Hamilton but if the Argos get there stadium complet in the GTA or York it will most likley follow the model of a CFL/Soccer field like Tim Horton's and Landsdowne in Ottawa. Could there be room for 4 teams to succeed. TFC DI, Lynx D3 TFC Affiliate, Hamilton NASL Tim Hortons, GTA NASL York/Durham stadium. Could make for an intersting Golden Horsesshoe pre season tournament. Lynx USL Pro Affiliat Hamilton NASL GTA NASL TFC 'B' team or a Lynx affilate PDL team or a TFC U23 if they add that to their academy or could the Lynx PDL team be a U23 affiliate for TFC as well. Just dreamin' but lack of facilities and venues are usually a deternent for a soccer franchise and things are moving on that front
Just out of curiosity, do you know how the MLS/USLPro affiliations work? I'm wondering what happens if by chance TFC ends up facing its affiliate in the Voyageurs Cup, would there be some kind of conflict of interest?
I am not sure what would happen but the USL pro Affiliates of the Union Harrisburg did/does play in the Hunt US open so they could have met or meet in the future. Canada would have a smaller field of teams at those levels. As it stands with the MLS and USL Pro looking for all to be in place by 2015. 3 MLS clubs 2 NASL clubs 3USL Pro clubs Would the NASL qualifier like this season have to play the USL Pro qualier to get to the final 4? Or could there be a straight 8 team tournament. Would the CSA regional d3 leagues be in place and each send a rep through qualifying rounds for each region Which ever way it will bring more attention to the Cup and everyone loves the under dog Could eventually have a feel like the NCAA college basketball tourny with the small teams facing off against the Big clubs looks like it would be a fun Tourny to watch and may be worth some good TV exposure once everyone qualifies for the final rounds