Netherlands Brilliant Oranje - Euro Cup 2012 Thread

I will watch this game in the next days again and I will make some notes with my observations. I want to see the CL final tonight. What is interesting is that I get you watch Sporting matches and that probably has given you examples to what a Schaars can bring to team.[/quote]

Yeah i'm rooting for bayern munich, but the backline looks weak against borussia dortmund, I was so happy, Holland can exploit them on the counter attack, I think germany might not make it out of the group!!! Yeah I always watch every week either schalke 04 or bayern munich, and sporting since they play at a later time, and whatever english league game, van wolfswinkel is awesome, he played alright for utrecht, but now he's badass! and schaars all the time, he has to run from the center to the side, and take on tough wingers even though he's a midfielder, only difference is, if he misses a tackle the guy is through, whereas when he rarely missed a tackle, there was someone behind him to do mop up duty. I wish they had better highlights on youtube, he would run down the side and deliver perfect crosses, link up with the winger capel, or float great balls in for van wolfswinkel or others.

 

Just to be fair to everybody. What are the key arguments against Bouma? What jumps out with him. Has he become to slow? Is he on ball not good enough on that position? Not enough attacking intentions? Making more slip ups than the other 2 (Schaars and Willems) would make? Not a good tackle? Also a defender walking with his man instead of going for the interception?

There must be a quality reason why he has won the battle against options like Buttner or Viergever rather than only the experience card he holds?

 

The most important argument is:

I prefer Willems as leftback above Bouma for PSV

Why would I prefer differently for the NT?

 

from my perspective, he still has great positional awareness which makes him great for a replacement for mathijsen, He was fierce and and great delivering great crosses, but he broke his ankle. And then the speed went down, and his tackling hasn't been the best. He has this habit to allow guys to shoot the ball positioning them to make a tough shot that goes out. And against better guys, they will shoot and score. Furthermore his speed or as the british call it pace is down. He will get blown apart by ronaldo rated one of the fastest players in the world. And he has very little vertical jump anymore, which means he will be relegated to hanging on to the post during corner kicks.

 

your team looks good portugal had problems at lb but thank god for Coentrao but i like williams and cant de jong move there if need be

 

if anyone wants to see schaars play in the portugal cup, he's playing today, it's a final 12:00pm NEW York Eastern Standard time USA, which Holland is like 6 hours ahead, So around 6 pm, So many live streaming sites to watch it from. So something to possibly watch for, i'm watching it after the vitesse vs rkc game ends, or vitesse score a lot of goals, then it's academic and i will just watch the start of the game, Watch Schaars and Van Wolfswinkel

 

I thought that that was just some guy's guess at what Cruijff's XI would be

 

4-2-3-1 Dominates Europe: Tactical Analysis of Changes in Europe's Most Popular System.

Here is the article about the system we have been playing and it's dominance in Europe.

 

Cryuff's X1 is horrible. Will loose 0-5. Mid-field will be over-run. He wants to play all the good tactical players.

Emanuelson at LB is a dud. VDV at DM is a huge Disaster. VDV is playing as a ST for Tottenham in 80% of the games, as a 2nd ST in a 4-4-2. At this point I doubt even VDV would work as CM,forget DM.


Afellay as CM is workable since he works his ass off,runs tirelessly. Defensively he is not good enough but against a team like Denmark where we can boss the mid-field we can have Afellay as CM.

But a Reall Strong DM who is quick,defensively well aware,can run tireslessly & is a very good tackler is needed. Clasie could have been it. Anita can be.

Van Bommel,I dont like him as DM. But he has leadership. I dont see leadership among anyone else in this team. I am not sure if he will be better than Mathijsen at CB.

 

I hope Arjen's penalty miss doesn't hurt his confidence going into the EC

 

I think it will motivate him. Right now media all over, not only in Germany, are bitching about him. Last time everyone got after him he took and international break and destroyed England. This time he has the source of his problems (Germany) to take out his rage on

 

I hope you're right. He seems to have a pretty strong character (read ego) so hopefully he'll be alright.

 

Yeah, it's not Cruijffs formation. Cruijff wouldn't literally spell out a formation for a coach. He just tries to push in the right direction. Here's what he said in his column:

Translation: I would puzzle so that they all play. Because they're too good for the bench.

 

It's going to be Bouma.

Bouhla didn't do too well there in training and for van Marwijk to play Anita or Schaars there he would have to come back to his reasoning as to why Urby was omitted. Van Bommel and Cocu have convinced Bert to take Willems to the EC so he's going to be Bouma's back-up.

Narsingh, Lens, Siem and Maher (slight chance for Anita to be dropped instead of Maher) are most likely to be dropped.

This is probably how the squad will look like, but with Bouma the starting LB and not Willems. Main reason why I've put it like this is to have all positions double filled.

KJH/Luuk​

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RVP/Afellay - Sneijder/VDV - Robben/Kuyt​

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NDJ/Schaars - MVB/Strootman​

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Willems/Anita - Mathijssen/Bouma - Heitinga/Vlaar - VDW/Bouhla​

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Stekelenburg/Krul/Vorm​

 

I think Anita will/should be included because of his ability to cover multiple positions (midfield, left/right back). Having said that, I'd be ecstatic to see Maher in the final squad. It will be a great experience for him, who will be the future of Oranje for many years to come. Not to mention, this will mean that he is 'locked' to the Dutch NT.

 

Hello everyone, I am wondering about your thoughts on the striker issue: RVP or KJH for Holland?

Watching a lot of Bundesliga, I get to see KJH a fair bit. He was the scoring leader of the Bundesliga playing for a CL-level club in Schalke, and had a special partnership with the legendary Raul (who has sadly parted ways with S04 in recent weeks). My impression is that he is definitely a good player, but a tier below the best strikers in the game atm.

RvP meanwhile scored 31 goals in the Premier League playing as the lone CF for Arsenal this year, and picked up all the major awards. This season alone put RvP in the same conversation as Ronaldo and Messi for title of "best striker on the planet". I think a season like the one RvP played, in a higher quality + lower scoring league, could not quite be duplicated by KJH.

Personally, I feel that while both are very good finishers, van Persie is slightly more talented in the art of goalscoring from critical areas, but Huntelaar is not far behind. On top of that, RvP is a complete player with world class passing skills that KJH does not possess, which are also vital elements of the CF position. We see this in our own NT where Klose (better all-round player) is preferred to Gomez (who is actually the better finisher nowadays), whenever the former is healthy.

Now we know RvP can also play as a winger, even though he has not played this position at all for one year (or has it been longer than that now?). That said, it's my belief that the strongest possible option should be used at each position. I think starting RvP as the lone CF against Denmark is the way to go for the Netherlands, but I am interested in what others more familiar with the Dutch NT than I have to say on the matter. Cheers and thanks for reading.

 

I greatly enjoy watching Van Persie at Arsenal, such an elegant and talented player. But that doesnt mean that he is the best striker for the dutch NT. In fact, the play-style of the dutch NT seems to be the opposite of what Van Persie excells in. So far his performance in the dutch NT has been very very avarage.
While KJH has not been giving as much opportunitys as Van Persie, he HAS performed in them and seems (in my opinion again) to be the preferred sole striker for this system. Not because he is better than Van Persie, but just because he fits the system better. (He is one of the most lethal strikers in the box-zone, thats why)

That said, I would love to see Van Persie as a 'second striker/leftwinger' with Robben as a right-sided winger who tracks back extensively as he has done with BM this last season. (I think that Van Persie is so talented, I rather have him in a non-ideal position than not at all on the field)
But im afraid we'll see Huntelaar on the bench and Van Persie taking his spot. Redoing 2010 WC as much as possible.. Who am I to disagree though..

 

I have already given my opinion. Huntelaar for me is a THE BEST STRIKER IN the world & a whole level about RVP. At this point I feel BL is a better league than EPL as in EPL the last 5-6 teams are an absolute joke while in BL everyone beats everyone & the teams are matched. Since Germany started focussing on Youth Academies by trying to replicate the Holland Model they have a Huge Amount of talent. Plus fantastic scouting.

That is why you see Cisse & BA go from BL & dominate EPL. I personally was an EPL guy through & through but I cant ignore the fact that the level of playing there is pretty HORRIBLE. Look at the kind of game Chelsea play or even United the last champions for that matter. ALSO EPL defenders are pretty naive,they struggle bad against Good Technical players because they just rush at the ball & for a tackle at skilled players without even thinking.

Huntelaar has a lot of things which RVP does not possess. For example he is a GEM of a header. WHen you go behind a 0-1 in a Euro or WC final the opposition will defend with 11 men & in most cases RVP's technical abilites wont work. In the last minutes of the final Robben was whipping in crosses but there was no good enough header. Apart from that Huntelaar is a beast physically,you can run a truck over him but he will come back.

His finishing is better than RVP. If you check out the Conversions Rate per shots I think Huntelaar would be among the highest today. And he has balls,the England match showed it. I hope RVP finds a pair too & those are not reserved for 2 goals against mexico in a pre-WC friendly.

Besides Huntelaar's scoring ratio for Oranje is WAY WAY WAY better than RVP. Huntelaar almost broke Falcao's Europa League Record this season. He was the highest Scorer in the Euro Qualifiers ahead of C.Ronaldo.

He broke his nose & had a concussion & despite that scored 29 goals in 30 odd matches. He has 46 goals odd in 45 matches & his supply is pretty ordinary. If he had Messi or C.Ronaldo level supply he would break their records.

And BTW I actually DONT like Penalty Box type ST's. In General I hate them. Huntelaar is an Exception. And RVP for me is not a No.9, he is 9.5, a cross between a ST,Winger & a CAM.

The thing which annoys me a lot about RVP is the amount of time he drops back creating a 4-6-0 formation. I dont like that. I hope RVP plays for Holland though because I would rather have RVP for Holland than not BECAUSE HE HAS THE ABILITY TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. I dont blame him for fading away in matches though,Arsenal always fight for 2-3-4th place in general & have not got a trophy in years.

 

I can tell you that on this board opinions vary. Van Marwijk will start Van Persie but I see Huntelaar playing a significant role off the bench as a pinch-hitter.

 

I know that. I gave mine. Probably repeated myself again.

I would be gutted to see Huntelaar on the bench. After the England game & his performance in the qualifiers,I would be gutted if he does not get any recognition. But then if that makes Oranje win,so be it.

I am equally dissapointed about Elia missing out whom I rate a Quality Back-up player but he himself is to blamed for going to Juve.

 

... Willems and Narsingh will probably start against Bayern München. Vorm; Boulahrouz, Vlaar, Mathijsen en Willems; De Jong en Van der Vaart; Narsingh, Sneijder en Kuyt; Huntelaar.

 

Boulahrouz at RB instead of VDW even for experimentation
VDV at CM, even more fail. Just play VDV & rest Sneijder. VDV at CM will not work with THIS DEFENSE & BVM knows it. Why give him false hope???

And no Schaars at LB because everyone knows Willems CANT DEFEND, a guy who gets destroyed againt Valencia cant hold his own against Germany or Portugal

 

Can't wait for the bayern munich game, but yeah, you know, it doesn't matter what our opinions on ideal formation and whos the better player, because we all know that when RVP and Huntelaar wear that Orange Jersey, Huntelaar is way better. But lets not look at what each offers offensively, The reason BVM picks Van Persie is because what he offers defensively, BVM believes great defense starts with the striker to pressure, and take direction from the defensive midfield to force the opposing defender to pass the ball in a certain area, which makes it easier to steal and start a new attack. Huntelaar is like a brawler. No skills, No speed, Just goals. He might not be able to help the defense in ways van persie can.