Rumor: Muppet Games: where muppets go to cry - 2012 summer transfer thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by cr7torossi, Mar 13, 2012.

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  1. Invincible

    Invincible Member+

    Mar 28, 2004
    Sanctuary
    That's peasant football.
     
  2. tim10

    tim10 Member

    May 23, 2006
    Melbourne, Australia

    Don't think Baines would be brought for his delievery.
    I believe Fergie wants a long term successor to Evra. Evra is 31, so buying a more than capable left back at this stage makes sense. Gives some competition for the LB role.

    I also think Evra's decline can be linked to amount of games he's forced to play back to back. There wasn't really an option to rest his given there wasn't much else experience in the backline with injuries to other players the last few seasons. Decreasing his load throughout the season would serve his form well I believe.

    I have also stated that I felt we need another experienced defender in our squad and a set piece threat.

    This is why I believe Baines would be a useful signing.

    However this should not be a sole signing, I think that we should also get at least 1 CM and another creative threat, whether that be a CAM, SS or WF. So a LB + CM + CAM/SS/WF would be vital for us this off-season. The two latter must also be first team regulars not squad depth or developing players.
     
  3. Bronaldo

    Bronaldo Red Card

    Apr 8, 2007
    Canada
    racialist
     
    Invincible repped this.
  4. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Then what would he be brought in for? He's not THAT great of a defender. He's not exceptionally quick or athletic or physically imposing. Any leftback lacking in some of those aspects, has to be the next Dennis Irwin, and Baines is obviously not that.
     
  5. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    is Baines even really a left back or more of a wing back? people only talk about his attacking exploits. i mean when was the last time anyone even mentioned him having a good game defensively??

    regarding Evra, in a way if he did get injured it might have helped him get some rest. his international ban did a little bit but he just seems invincible at times. he has been the one constant through the yearly defensive crises
     
  6. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    ^^ hes at least as good defensively as evra. Not as athletic, and no way as good a dribbler. But has a damn site more end product. It's a close trade off.

    But I don't think he's worth anywhere near 15m, nit at his age. Maybe 10, maybe.
     
  7. tim10

    tim10 Member

    May 23, 2006
    Melbourne, Australia
    I meant to say that wouldn't be his exclusive reason for being brought in the side. Please see the reasons in my previous post.
     
  8. Invincible

    Invincible Member+

    Mar 28, 2004
    Sanctuary
    Sending Fabio out on loan and proceeding to sign Baines for 15m makes no sense at all.

    In fact, LB should be the last position United look to fill right now.
     
  9. tim10

    tim10 Member

    May 23, 2006
    Melbourne, Australia
    That's your opinion. Fabio needs some experience and we need a more reliable back-up/first team LB than him for next season. If he gets some valuable game time and keeps fit, he'll come back a better player. Plus he has the versatility to play RB + LB, Evra and Baines do not.
     
  10. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    Baines would be a pretty dismal signing.
     
  11. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He would be an okay signing, just based on that there isnt much available in that position if we are looking to strengthen. Around 10 m and its a decent deal, gives us another threat going forward, rather keep Fabio and play him.
     
  12. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    On a priority list LB isn't the most pressing need, but we have to admit there's a huge problem in the position as Evra, more often than not, is not only a liability there, he's the inlet for the opposition and is causing his CB, CM and winger to do far too much work defensively to cover for him. We shouldn't have a starting position that is always in need of extra attention from other starters - each starter should be able to hold his own and not need bailing out by anyone else.

    If Evra continues his form into a third season, it's safe to say that his level is that of squaddie and not starter.

    An actual elite LB would save us about 10 goals a season and shore us up defensively either with their offensive threat forcing the oppo to cater to them in the offensive.. or with the competence to actually play as a proper LB, which Evra never was.

    Whether Leighton Baines is of the quality to even usurp Evra is debateable given he has nowhere near the carriage skills, pace or assertiveness to make his quality in the final third really show as a factor. Defensively, he can be in position and still make bad errors and descisions, so it's hard to say he's an upgrade... more like par, give or take. Not good bang for buck.

    LB needs to be looked at, but unless we can find a really good one, the money would be better spent on compensating for Evra's foibles with better players at CM and in attack. I'd rather a 10goal a season inlet with a 30-40% upgrade in our offensive and neutral capability than a better LB and the same creative and qualitive issues we have at the amount.
     
  13. Invincible

    Invincible Member+

    Mar 28, 2004
    Sanctuary
    You seem to be emotionally rankled?

    He has a Premier League medal and has played in a CL Final.

    United will play in 4 competitions next season and with Evra being permacrap, there'll be more than enough game time.

    And that back-up will be in his way once he returns.

    See above. Is he going to come back and put 15m Baines on the bench?

    Another reason he shouldn't go out on loan. Thanks!
     
  14. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Cissokho would be a better bet, wouldnt be a liability aerially either.
     
  15. googoo

    googoo Member

    Dec 22, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    For 10m, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

    Has fantastic end product, a great free-kick on him and won't hide on the defensive end. I've had it with Evra never closing down his man and compromising our defensive shape all the ********ing time.
    I can understand why some of you are saying that LB is not a priority but for me it's just as bad as CM. It's not only that we concede a shitload of goals thanks to Evra's hiding/shit positioning/not tracking back at all, it puts us under constant pressure. It would be great, too, if Young or anyone who plays LW/LWF didn't have to spend half their time in our own half bailing Evra out repeatedly.

    As for him not being an upgrade on Evra? We'll see about that once Evra gets beaten at the halfway line and only casually jogs back again. Lost count of how many times that has already happened this season.
     
  16. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Just because he wont hide, doesnt mean he wont be a liablity.

    :whistling:
     
  17. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    Baines is not a good defender. Even when in position, he is routinely beaten. I wouldn't get your hopes up about us conceding less with him in the team, and I certainly don't think he'd make us solid at the back.

    Crossing, FK's, stamina, long-range shooting that will lead to some goals, sure. But outside of that... he's par or worse than Evra's current level. He has less: strength, pace, far, far less dribbling ability, one and two touch, leap...

    There's not enough there for him to cost a sizeable fee because he comes with lots of cons to go with less pros.
     
  18. Poborsky

    Poborsky Member

    Baines would help us breaking teams down. A left side of Young and Baines would be difficult to park the bus against. Also, his clever usage of the ball and off the ball play would help us move the ball against teams that press high. which was obviously a problem this year. But defensively, he's just not good enough to represent a massive upgrade. He consistently has trouble.

    The reason I'd be tempted to risk it is that we could really use another very good passer in that part of the field. However, we should be looking for one who is better defensively. Jordi Alba is small but even more clever than Baines and much quicker. He'd cost twice as much, but he's also 5 years younger. Haven't seen too many other LB's I'm in love with. I agree that Evra needs to be pushed.

    United need a LM/CAM type, a CM/DM type and an LB to push Evra. If Scholes leaves, we need 2 midfielders. Hopefully, he comes back for another year.

    LM/CAM:
    Whereas Rooney is world class as a 9, as a 10 he provides goals but leaves our midfield outworked at times. United showed this year they need to have more passers out there, not less. Rooney and Welbeck can be the main guys at the 9 position, with Rooney getting games out left and at the #10 spot in games where we're more concerned with scoring than defending (15 home games a year, probably). Hernandez is a brilliant bench scorer, but his link play was not good enough to justify a starting spot. Besides, few teams have as good a bench scorer.

    So, I'd sign an attacker who can compete with and hopefully start over Young as the left-sided attacker when we play 4-3-3 and as a #10 when we play 4-2-3-1. Personally, I'd go for Muniain, who showed real bottle and desire in the Europa League Final, dropping deep, riding challenges and playing 1-2's in an attempt to rejuvenate his team. He has the lowest center of gravity of any footballer I've ever seen. He'd fit in nicely with Cleverley and Welbeck. The other narrow left winger/#10 I'd be looking at is Pastore, who had a nightmare year at PSG and still put up 12 goals and 6 assists in 28 starts. He's a genius, but he's not near as well suited for the Prem as Muniain. Could be a Berbatove type fit here.

    CM/DM:
    Carrick is a good, simple passer and generally healthy. Cleverley and Anderson are solid central midfielders going forward who don't play defense well, but without significant end product or ability to control a game. Giggs and Scholes are similar, but with end product (Giggs) and ability to control a game (Scholes). Fletcher is a runner/tackler who will hopefully come back but can't be counted on. Pogba may or may not be here.

    So, I'd sign someone who is a good fit in a 2 man midfield with Carrick and a 3 man midfield with Carrick and Cleverley. A mobile passer. Apart from Banega, who I think is fantastic but a risk for mental and injury-based reasons, I'm not sure who to nominate here. Modric or Schweinsteiger would be ideal, but no chance at the latter. Nuri Sahin, sitting on Madrid's bench, would be ideal as well. I'd be curious to see more of the Badelj guy, who is supposedly a fine DLP. Hopefully he'll start for Croatia and we'll get to see him against the Spanish, Italians and Irish, all different style midfields. Dembele is a brilliant ball retainer and a pretty strong tackler, but his passing, defensive awareness and understanding in possession play would need to massively improve to be the man here. He's new-ish to the position, so it might work, but he is 24. This one seems impossible, but with Guardiola leaving, we should be tapping up Xavi and seeing if he wants to be the man here and have a foreign adventure. Joe Allen is an interesting option. He completed over 90% of his passes and works hard. He's young enough that if the scouts think he could improve enough here, he'd be an affordable option.

    LB:
    Someone young to push Evra and reduce his workload. This also bolsters our RB options in that Fabio can cover there more often. Alba would be more expensive. Since I'd rather spend 25-30 each on the first two guys, I'd expect this would have to be a cheap signing. Didac Villa was on loan at Espanyol this year, but Milan own him. He looked very solid on that Spanish U-21 team. A dirt-cheap option I like is Fucile, the Porto player on loan at Santos who always looks good for Uruguay. Clyne seems to be the rumoured arrival, though I haven't seen him enough to comment. I was impressed by Izaguirre.

    So, we'd look like this, with Muniain, Sahin and Izaguirre arriving.

    -----------------------Rooney (Welbeck, Hernandez as sub)-------------------
    ----Muniain(Young, Giggs)-------------------------------------Nani (Valencia)
    ------------Cleverley(Anderson, Giggs)------Sahin (Scholes, Giggs)---------
    -------------------------Carrick (Fletcher, Pogba, Scholes)--------------------
    --Evra (Izaguirre, Fabio)-------------------------------Rafael (Fabio Smalling, Jones)
    -----------------------Vidic(Evans)--------Ferdinand(Smalling, Jones)
    ----------------------------------De Gea(Lindegaard, Amos)-----------------------

    The big starting battles would be Evra/Izaguirre, Ferdinand/Smalling and probably Nani/Valencia, because even though Nani is wonderful, Valencia at his best would risk taking almost any wide player's spot. In the CL, we could drop Cleverley and play Scholes with Sahin (or whatever new CM) and Carrick. In Prem Home games against most teams, Rooney behind Welbeck and one of Sahin/Cleverley/Carrick sitting on the bench depending on form.

    If Izaguirre can beat out Evra by the end of the year and Smalling can do the same to Rio, we'd have no starters over 28 but be an exciting team comfortable in possession. All for 60 million (35 to blow away Bilbao, 18 for Madrid to then spend on another squaddie CM and 7 for Celtic)

    We need to be more mobile and smarter on the ball.
     
    johno and Invincible repped this.
  19. pgr17

    pgr17 Member+

    Sep 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    @FreddieBoswell7 The 2 deal's tee'd up are Asamoah & Kagawa,just waiting on the yes-no.Ba,RVWW,Hunterlaar being looked at.
     
  20. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    If you are quoting him he says we are there for Hazard until City came in with their wages, we will see about the ones he says.
     
  21. WinningEleven

    WinningEleven Member

    Jun 23, 2006
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That @FreddieBoswell7 is a loon. Wrong on many occasions.

    I've found @Fourth_Official to be a better ITK.
     
  22. pgr17

    pgr17 Member+

    Sep 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    yeah... and he also says the Hazard to City deal is finalized in his timeline.

    :barefoot:

    but as usual, it is all just fun and rumors... won't take it as gospel until i see them holding up or wearing our shirt.

    oh wait... i mean playing in our shirt in an actual game. that's better :)
     
  23. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Asamoah could provide what we were looking for when playing Anderson in a deeper role, but as only midfield signing and Kagawa only attacking signing, it would be underwhelming.
     
  24. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Is there a way, on twitter where you can go to someone's page, and read only their original tweets, and not the replies to other ppls tweets?
     
  25. Poborsky

    Poborsky Member



    Does anyone remember why we didn't beat Juventus' 10 million bid for Arturo Vidal? He's mobile, desperate to win the ball, plays neat short passes and has some skill going forward. With him nex to Carrick, we'd be tough to break down. He's probably the closest to a Roy Keane around right now. Vidal-Scholes-Cleverley would also be really interesting.

    He's probably the closest to a Roy Keane around right now. He'd be tough to get, but Italy is down to 3 CL spots. We should be able to buy a player or two from big teams occasionally.

    I haven't seen as much of Gary Medel, but he looked handy for Sevilla when I saw them. The non-Barca + Real Madrid players in the top 30 passing accuracy in Spain who started at least 10 games were:
    1) Bruno on Villareal- They're probably going to just stay up. He's quite similar to Carrick but would be great signing if gettable for 8 Million. He's 27 and too good for his current team, so he should be looking for a move.
    2) Isco on Malaga - Criminally, he went to Malaga for 6 million last year. He was 7 in 12, as an AM, for the Spanish U-19 team and routinely named as a future Spanish national team player. He was a guy we should have bought. Even if he hadn't worked out, at 20, you know that barring injuries, you'll at least be able to sell him without incurring a loss.
    3) Iriney on Betis - 31, so probably not a great option. Commits a ton of fouls.
    4) Raul Baena on Espanyol - 23. Played well the one 90 minute game of theirs I saw. Trained at La Masia. Barca want 3.5 million in compensation for him, Espanyol are fighting them on it. Only started 13 times for Espanyol in the league, which seems odd, although their other CM's are capable. Probably some reason he isn't undisputed first choice there, but seems like a guy to watch out for.
    5) Medel - hard worker. Another energetic, short passing Chilean. Good fit defensively next to Carrick in tough games, working hard and covering the pitch well. Less potential going forward than a Vidal or an Asamoah.

    La Liga has the best CM play. The ball is played short, quickly and on the ground, so central midfielders get a lot more practice being under pressure and pressuring. I'd probably buy at least one CM from there. I really like Banega, but he'd be a risk to settle in with his temperament and injuries. Bruno would be perfect if we didn't have Carrick.

    We need guys capable of playing a fast, short passing game. We have Welbeck, Rooney (as a 9, not as a 10), Nani, Valencia, Scholes, Cleverley, Carrick (sort of) Rafael, Fabio, Evra, Smalling, Evans, De Gea and Lindegaard all well suited to that type of game. The jury is out on Jones, Young, Pogba (defensive intensity, his passing is good enough already) and Anderson. Park and Berbatov have trouble with this kind of play, for completely opposite reasons. Hernandez looked incapable of it this year, and if that continues (he showed signs of improving link play at the Copa America) he should be our off the bench scorer. Giggs is a crazy genius who produces off the bench. Vidic isn't great at that kind of play, but you can afford one CB who isn't, and he's just so good, especially in the cross-heavy EPL, that it's more than fine.

    It's crazy, actually. We had a strong, fast English style team going into the summer and instead of investing in players good in a short passing and pressing tempo we bought Jones and Young, two players primarily notable for their play at the offensive and defensive ends of the pitch, respectively. We bought penalty area guys instead of players who excel only between the boxes (Prime Evra or Iniesta are the archetypal brilliant between the boxes, less so inside them players, for me). Ideally you get players who excel at both "between the boxes" play and in one penalty area (Aguero, Scholes, Alves, Prime Rio), but we have the players to smash helpless teams. I'm desperate for us to get some mobile passers with guile.
     

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