MLS vs. NASL (vs. USL Pro)/ NYCFC vs. Cosmos (vs. Red Bulls)

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by Gaboo, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think your last sentence is something that can never be proven or disproven, so it's an impossible conversation to have.

    Where player development in the US "should" be today is a bottomless rabbit hole. And I'd argue that developing players for the USMNT isn't MLS' job.
     
  2. Jossed

    Jossed Member+

    Apr 23, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #5177 Jossed, Apr 8, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
    I don't know? Maybe because the current regime is headed by a German whose understanding is European club soccer? And who was done playing before MLS was even a league? Even then, the depth of the team is provided by MLS. MLS will always be the determining factor if the U.S. is ever to be a soccer power. We can only find so many German kids with American fathers.

    You would have to be a complete fool to expect MLS to be filled with Donovan level players after 18 years. That is totally unrealistic based on the finances and struggles of MLS over the years. The NASL existed for 16 years and never provided any real sustainable talent to the USMNT. MLS in its 18 years, has done a tremendous job in producing talent with their budgets, which are only a fraction compared to even mid-level Euro clubs.

    Only recently have we seen more spent on development with academies and the agreement with USL-Pro is a massive step forward. The next 10 years should be very exciting.

    Oh, Dave Kasper wouldn't have a job. But because DCU wouldn't exist. They would be relegated to the league the Tampa Bay Mutiny and Miami Fusion have been playing in the past 13 years.
     
  3. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would agree. But developing very good players is very much in their interest. So the USMNT thing should be a natural by product of good player development. From USSF's point of view, development of the game and player development at all levels is in their best interest (well aside from the money they make of youth soccer). And now we are full circle again.
     
  4. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not going to say you are right or wrong, but i can recall almost this same conversation in 2000 after the USA U-17's put up some great performances in the 1999 FIFA U-17 World Cup. Back then we saw Donovan and Beasley and said in 10 years we'd have amazing players....well its 14 years later and that group of kids still ranks as prob the best developed players we had.

    Back then the USSF had its own residential academy, it had great success. MLS doesn't have that, they have a gloried youth travel team (some is still pay to play). If MLS gets around to paying for free residential academies...maybe things will change.
     
  5. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am defining world class as in stars on the biggest and best clubs in the world. Names every soccer fan around the world knows. And every other country is smaller, less rich and has less of a sporting tradition than the USA..so i don't think their lack of star power is relevant.
     
  6. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When it comes to soccer sporting tradition in the US, the 1994 WC, followed by MLS starting up in 1996, is basically the beginning of anytradition. We're got basically 20 years of sustained, organized, professional soccer in the US. With that in mind, it's pretty amazing how far we've come.
     
  7. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And they're still playing. They're just now at the end of their prime years. We have people taking over for them. We have guys that are already pushing them and would probably be supplanting them if this weren't a World Cup year.

    The academy system is literally 5 years old. It has already produced players.

    So 1% players. K, well we're a whole hell of a lot closer to this than we ever were and it is players bred in the MLS that are the ones making this strides.

    In the discussion soccer, no that's not the US at all.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nobody's saying this.
     
  9. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's too early to start complaining about MLS academies not yet having produced a major star. The league's first-ever homegrown player was Tristan Bowen -- who is currently 23 years old. Not a single one of the league's homegrown players has hit the peak years of his career.
     
  10. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The debate seems to have shifted to the impact of MLS on producing players for the US Nats.

    My opinion is it has been huge in creating depth within the pool. I don't think it has done much in generating elite players though. Compare our current best XI to 94's best eleven. I don't think there is much of a difference.
     
  11. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. Add the instability of pro/rel, and they don't last long enough to get relegated.
     
  12. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Which players from the 94 squad would you pick over the (probable) squad for this year's world cup?
     
  13. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    I don't agree with him overall but Tom Dooley would be an auto starter at CB. Ramos and E Stewart would be a great asset out wide because of their speed and skill, and we are lacking there right now.

    Otherwise....eh.

    Many are nostalgic about that team as it was in the early days of the games rebirth here. They also forget we played 10 men behind the ball the vast majority of the time. Ask that team to play like we do now and they get beaten a lot more, and badly in some cases.

    There are certainly players who could easily have been in this squad, but their places wouldn't be assured and they would add to our depth. Guys like Waldo and Harkes come to mind. Balboa is probably on par with Besler and better than Gonzo.

    The difference is there, but not huge, and playing style has a lot to do with it.
     
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  14. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just my opinion but...

    Wynalda
    Stewart
    Ramos
    Dooley
    Balboa
    Harkes

    All would have a shot at the first XI.
     
  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course, Thomas Dooley and Earnie Stewart were the John Anthony Brooks and Fabian Johnson of their day....
     
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  16. itcheyness

    itcheyness Member

    Jul 30, 2012
    Milwaukee
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #5191 itcheyness, Apr 11, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
  17. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    He makes a point I have made several times.

    The insanity really didn't start until the Cosmos overplayed their hand with MLS. Peterson seemed very reasonable after he got hired and it was like a switch turned one day.....like someone had a nice talk with him.....and the over the top hot air babbling and hypocrisy has just taken off.

    Stuff like this can grab some headlines, and even fringe support for a while, until people just start tuning it out.

    There is the reality of it, and then there is everything else. The folks who talk around it, try to sound reasonable as they ignore facts, make up worries and fears, come up with "solutions" that aren't realistic or serious to anyone but themselves are always going to do that until things are done the way they want....the only way that makes sense and is legitimate...in their minds. It's gotta be hard living in a world that small.
     
  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    World Cup or no World cup, there is no way in hell Beasley should be our starting LB.

    I still see no replacement for Donovan, Zusi can't do everything Donovan used to. Maybe Johannsson, I cross my fingers.
     
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  19. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    There is no replacement for LD. Looking for one will only lead to disappointment.

    Just gotta keep developing more quality here, and counting on some guys overseas.
     
  20. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Deacon has decided that one streaming game a week on ESPN3 is better than MLS's TV deal.
     
  22. Egbert Sousé

    Egbert Sousé Member

    NYCFC
    May 25, 2013
    nyc
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that the same Deacon who tried his hardest to convince everyone ESPN wasn't a real network, or was than a different Deacon? :whistling: Wonder when he had his epiphany? And ESPN 3 no less! :ROFLMAO:
     
  23. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't doubt he believes this one bit.
     
  24. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He has now declared the NASL is the most visible soccer league in the nation. Because of one streamed game a week. On ESPN3.
     
  25. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he's just trolling to get a response at this point.
     

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