And the first post in the page is a notice of a ban to the group for violent conduct. Where have I read that before?
Political ultras are on the rise in Germany, Scandinavia, Poland, the Balkans, Greece, Russia and basically every single eastern bloc nation. A lot of it is tied to the anti-immigrant and/or anti-EU movements. No, in a lot of paces the supporters are basically in control of their clubs, and would firebomb cars and attack the club office until the owners/management caved to their demands (this has happened before by the way).
Armada Sur (English supporters group of Spanish Segunda team CD Tenerife) did so for me when I was in the Canary Islands 6 years ago. They let me grab a ticket with them and had be bouncing and singing with them throughout the game. One of them even offered me their scarf, but I had already bought one. Apparently they knew somebody from the LA Riot Squad who had been to a game or two with them in the past.
Holy Generalization batman! I'm not arguing with your facts, but the fact that one type of group exists or is rising does not invalidate any other kind.
I'm not disputing "things that have happened before" ... My whole point is that it's stupid to generalize ... There's as many varieties of Ultras as there are fish in the sea. Usually you can get the full spectrum of groups just within one club let alone the cultural differences from country to country ... And politics is not on the rise in most places, at least not the traditional left vs. right politics. The general anti FIFA, anti UEFA, anti big business and anti police repression politics maybe you'd have a point. The groups today that are right wing or left wing were also the same in the 2000's, 90's and 80's. I can point to several club Ultra scenes that have become less politicized over the years ...
If there's no meaningful way to define an Ultra, why even bother with the label, I mean it seems like people want to attach themselves to the mystique of being an "ultra" but at the same time want to be totally divorced from the negative connotations also attached.
All ultra means is someone who is more fanatical. Fanaticism doesn't always have to only have negative connotations. All kinds of people can be fanatical. That doesn't have to cross over into violence, xenophobia and homophobia. The fact that some people insist on placing that label on all ultras is mainly their problem. There are literally hundreds of groups around Europe that are in it for the joy of camaraderie, the bonding and the pride in their club/city. There are literally hundreds of groups that ban all politics ... including entire nations like for example Norway where you would never see a political banner in an ultra section. As for the attraction and the mystique ... a lot of that is more like an attraction to a fashion or a lifestyle. Ultras goes beyond simply football. Football is just one manifestation. Ultras identity is primarily a reflection of the irrational love a human can have to a city or a neighborhood. It's hard to explain unless you've ever felt it. Ultras identity is also about music scenes, art scenes, fashion and other cultural bonds that forge people together. Sometimes those bonds have ugly sides like violence, drugs and alcohol ... In a way Ultras are reflections of the cities and societies they come from ... and just like everything in life these reflections can be complex and bring out the best and worst in people ...
I'll just have to continue to not understand. You say it's someone who is more fanatical, aren't all supporters groups by definition "more fanatical"? Surely there's more to it then that, otherwise it's again a totally meaningless name in and of itself. That's not to take away from the support, the friendships, the time, effort, energy and blood they poor into supporting their teams one bit. Like I said earlier, I fail to see how some people/groups can wear it like a meaningful badge of honor, but want to divorce all true defining/meaning from it at the same time.
Exactly ... That's why you see mutual respect and admirations between various groups from Europe, Latin America, Asia, North Africa and even N America. There's more similarities than differences. I think people read too much into what they misperceive ultras to be. Really the only unique characteristic of Ultras compared to rest of world is a more militant desire to stay independent. It has to be an organic cultural movement otherwise it's just a corporate sponsored cheerleading section.
Go to as many aways as you can, often sacrificing other pursuits. Don't make personal profit on your group. Don't take money from club, stay independent (their job is winning on field not buying atmosphere and doing things supporters should be doing). Sing 90 minutes, twice as loud when losing (a lot of groups say that, I traveled to pretty close to 100 aways around north america and you don't see it very often). Be ready to defend your shit (that's good rule in life too ). It's ok to not understand. I don't understand people that dress up at ren fest or go to techno parties but I appreciate their enthusiasm If there was a magic pill to understand it then a lot of moms around the world would be taking it. As someone that got formal schooling in psychology and likes to understand things about people I don't bother with ultras mentality. It makes no sense, you just click with it or you don't.
I understand the feelings and what it all means, I simply was stating I don't understand the nebulous definition of what an Ultra is and isn't, and how it means everything and nothing all at once.
Perhaps a better question is, what is NOT an Ultra? Why do groups that consider themselves Ultras say that others are not? Are there any objective tests that eliminate a group from being "Ultra"?
Mostly what I believe about, "ultras," in the United States and have always believed. They glorify the worst parts about ultras culture. Sure there are decent ultras groups in Europe. The groups that people in San Jose and Montreal try to copy are the same ones that would kick the hell out of them if they ever met face to face. Fact.
Ultras are more independent from the FO than Supporters groups. That's the difference. "Ultras" are also more exclusive than "Supporter Groups" (They don't just hand out scarves). I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just pointing out the differences.
I can tell you as a "regular fan", that I have no connection or dependency on the "FO". On an unrelated note, didn't your tifo privileges get taken away from the front office?
Sure...and pretending to want to be respected by whatever crappy club in Romania your leader follows is also not a recipe for ultras. There are no ultras in America. There a few wanna bes, which San Jose definitely fits into, and then a lot of other groups that just do their own thing. Pining for respect from a bunch of 3rd rate clubs in Europe will never get a group respect here in America. Everyone here is doing their own thing and the groups aping like 1906 does just get laughed at on both sides of the pond and even worse sanctioned by their own club for acting like fools.
So how exactly are they pining for respect from a 3rd rate Euro club? You have to explain that for me ... When I see 1906 they look like they're genuinely enjoying themselves and genuinely supporting their club. I don't see respect from Steaua as some primary concern of theirs. The fact that they draw inspiration from other Ultra scenes is totally normal in the Ultras world.
You're basing that on what exactly? I would contend that there are a number of groups in MLS that are just as independent, including my own, that do not consider themselves specifically as "ultras".