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Discussion in 'New York City' started by PCFC, Jan 12, 2012.
From Big Apple Soccer and Garber
I'd be surprised if the Cosmos could get it done and not the Jets...so I see this as unlikely...but worth a post.
nfl stadiums are huge with big traffic. i like queens tho.
The NFL stadium at that site got blocked years ago - now they would try to pass another stadium - this being smaller.
Hard to see this likely - especially with the Dolans a few blocks away.
Only way is if the Dolans are in on it. MSG already does MLS cablecasts so there is a possibility that MSG Corp would want to add another team.
True - the Dolans and Cablevision were a major factor in blocking the Jets/Olympic Stadium on the West Side almost 10 years ago. But remember that a lot of that had to do with the fact that that stadium (with its retracting roof) was being framed not so much as a stadium but as an expansion of the Javits Center. I have no idea whether a potential Cosmos stadium on that site would have quite the same scope and ambition. There's likely to still be local resistance to anything being built on that site, but "The Jets couldn't get it done, why should _____ be able to" is one of those aggravatingly illogical and ahistorical things that passes too often for wisdom whenever the subject of a stadium in NYC comes up.
It's not illogical when you are talking about the exact same site.
Beyond that, much of the railyards redevelopment is spoken for. Sorry, but this is pure crap coming from the league.
Can someone explain how the Dolans have that much power over the region? I really don't know.
They have a ton of money and a ton of other interests in the area.
Am I looking at the right area?
Google Maps - 40.754444, -74.003056
If so that seems like prime real estate. How do they plan to swing that?
Unlikely, Bloombucks built the 7 extension so that he could build hi-rise apartments in that area.
All things being equal, an MLS team at that site would be great.
But considering Red Bull Arena is only 12 miles away, I'm less than thrilled with the notion.
I'd support the idea of an MLS team in Queens because it would give the Red Bulls a rival but would be far enough to serve a largely different season ticket base.
Sheldon Silver was intimately involved in ensuring that the Jets lost the bid for the West Side Stadium. If MLS and the Cosmos (or whomever) could get Silver on their side, a Manhattan stadium could be a possibility...
I totally agree.
No offense, but nowhere does this article say that the Cosmos are looking to build a stadium in Manhattan. This seems all about MLS getting a stadium approved and started so they can get the 100 million dollar franchise fee they want for the NYC expansion.
A manhattan stadium at this site is simply not possible. Especially with an election coming up in 2013 where the City Council speaker is running for mayor and this is in her current district. There's ten million reasons why this ain't happening, that's just one.
And phillymls is right, Lewis isn't talking aobut Cosmos money, he's talking about league money... which leads me to think, as Chris Dobens pointed out in his article on the subject, why aren't DC supporters out front of MLS HQ with pitchforks, given what they've been going through vis a vis a stadium.
Eh - not sure - i mean in how much weight does MSG hold the Redbull and MLS (not a knock - just being honest) there have been nights the REdbull are moved to MSG plus so the main MSG site can show a boxing match from 40 years ago.
However, its not about casts and MLS - this is about the dolans dont want another concert option a few blocks away from their arena.
Right - i totally agree. The reason I dont see it happening is not because the JEts couldnt get it done but WHY the Jets could not get it done.
Theoretically - this is nto an 80K NFL stadium we are talking about, this is a 30K soccer stadium - much easier to get by but it all comes down to the Dolans again. People forget, the Jets stadium was SILVER VOTE Shy of being done. Silver was in the dolans back pocket and played the "we should develop the WTC site first and then i can approve this" card. Pretty dick move because we all know he could care less, he cared about the check that came in the mail for blocking the West Side Stadium.
LOL - sadly dude - our baseball teams owners who are a joke- hold alot of power in Queens. When are a major player in that area, you most likely put a lot of money in the community.
The site would be a success and it would draw, but does it capture the imagination of the whole area? Does it get the people of Queens and Brooklyn behind MLS? The Borough Boys would be there but what about average Joe New York Sports fan? That is the people they are tryign to get into the league - right?
West side would be a lot of luxury boxes and business season ticket holders.
Yes, as stated before, is Silver still in the Dolans back pocket?
Honestly many of us are trying to figure out why the MLS is involved in the stadium process to begin with. Like how ********ed up is that for other cities that they have to present a stadium plan, yet NYC is getting a group dedicated to it?
A lot of the sites that Garber is mentioning have been mentioned by the old Cosmos regime. They said all these sites at the Q and A last year, which leads me to believe that Yes, Garber is involved because he wants this team badly, but the Cosmos always were the ones doing the work.
I know a lot of people dont believe a word that comes out of their mouths, and i totally understand that but Joe Fraga did a LOT of work for a stadium in this city. More work than Garber has done.
This is coming from multiple sources who are following the situation closely, and those sources include some journos with solid reputations in the area.
In the past, when we met with councilmen and the Wilpons, someone told the councilman that the MLS is willing to kick in capital on a NYC based team because they know how important winning the market is for the league. In fact they stated some of the other owners wanted it so bad they would kick in capital as well. Is Garber and MLS going to kick in money for this? If not, why does he get to call the shots on the stadium?
Whatever - just get it the feck done
Does the 100 million fee include stakes in the MLS stadium? Is that why it's so high? Peep this quote from the article:
I think this stadium is at best a dream, but I don't think it's a bad idea. In fact, I think it would be a wild success. Everyone, literally everyone, has a connection to the 34th street area.
Also, didn't Garber get involved with the Poplar Point and Prince George sites for DCU? Both fell through though.
I think it is pretty easy to figure out why MLS has taken the lead on this. They want a NY team and the easiest way to do that is to get the stadium situation (the hardest part) sorted out. If they leave it to the ownership group then 1) you are locked into having to only deal with one group 2) you may have multiple groups competing and that isn't necessarily good when both are going to be asking for government help and 3) if there is a huge change in the ownership group (like the Cosmos) you won't loose any progress that has been made. Look at it this way; if MLS gets this stadium approved and ready to be built you are guaranteed a team. However, if the Cosmos did all sorts of work, got close to approval, and then said feck it, the whole situation would be lost for MLS and a new group would start from scratch.
From an ownership point of view what MLS is doing is much more preferable than going alone at it. They would much rather come into something knowing the hardest part is done (getting the infrastructure through all the bureaucratic red tape) than do it themselves.
Except that who the feck is Don Garber? Don Garber hasn't built a goddam thing in this city. Do you think Don Garber would have gotten a project like Atlantic Yards done? Of course not. It took a savvy son of a bitch like Ratner, who knows how the city works, to get something like that done. I'm sorry, I'd much rather see, you know, an actual real estate developer do this than a soccer league.
its a fair point dude - yea.
The only problem is - how much work has been done? We really dont know for sure. Everything we are hearing is that if there was any movement from the old Cosmos group it was in Greenpoint - not on the West Side.
Unless Garber and Bloomberg have something very dirty up their sleeves, then i just cant see it happening.
However, Bloomy is a man built on pride. . He got a kick in the balls when the West Side Stadium failed and he didnt get his project.
This could be his chance to turn around and say - ******** you, i still got something. Also, this puts Silver in a tough spot because now he can say, well, WTC is almost done, what would stop you now? This could be a political pissing match.
I dont know - i just cant see the West side happening.
Im going to take Metrogos word for it that there are probably 1000s of other reasons this wont happen.
I really wish we can find out who is on that "stadium" team with MLS - lol
And how well did that work out for DCU? Victor McFarlane was, you know, a real estate developer. You kinda have it both ways since you feel that DCU fans should be up in arms bc MLS didn't help them, which they did just not to this extent. Then you say that a real estate developer should spearhead the effort instead of a soccer league which is exactly what they had in DC so,... problem solved there.
This is like saying "the Yankees put in A-Rod as a pinch hitter in the 9th inning and he struck out, that didn't work out. So why shouldn't we put in Metrogo and see how that works out"?
The fact that a real estate dealer didn't get it done in DC doesn't mean that it's more likely that a soccer league can build a large inner city structure than a real estate developer.
Beyond that, if I was a DC fan, I wouldn't be upset that the league is trying to develop a site for the stadium using their expertise, I'd be upset if they put money behind it.
PS I direct you to Dobens' article and comment in thisiscosmoscountry.com for the DCU argument.
You have an excellent point, but Don Garber is the head of a multi-billion dollar corporation that is headquartered in NYC. That gives him more pull than a group of Saudis, or pretty much any ownership group that doesn't involved a major NYC developer. I suspect that if they want to get the stadium built they are going to need to build a relationship with a NYC developer and have the stadium included in a larger development. Based on the comments on this forum I doubt they'll have much success getting a stand-alone stadium built.
Though I don't think MLS is quite as big an operation as you think, I agree with the rest.