MLS/PRO Lockout of PSRA

Discussion in 'Referee' started by RedStar91, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good thing the PSRA website is updated with the correct name for the top professional women's division in this country.
     
  2. Baka_Shinpan

    Baka_Shinpan Member

    Mar 28, 2011
    Between the posts
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Would be kind of funny if they negotiated a contract that specified WPS ;-)
     
  3. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is PRO not MLS. PRO pays the referees.
     
    refinDC repped this.
  4. Dave Anderson

    Dave Anderson Member

    Jan 11, 2013
    One can be respectful, professional and do nothing beyond the bare minimum to help someone else out who has hurt your own interests. Remember, referees (at least until you get to the PRO level) are indepedent contractors. Assignors are under no obligation to give a referee a game, or more importantly a game that is useful for them, although if you want 3 U-12 games next Tuesday in the snow, they are yours.... Assessors are obligated to give you a fair, accurate and useful assessment and feedback; although it is up to their judgement as to whether or not a match was rate-able so if it was a flip a coin decision a priori, it might not be depending on the person. An assessor who could maybe fit your game into his schedule after a 75 mile drive to get there might decide traffic conditions won't enable him to get to your game and turn down the assessment. A future mentor might decide that he really does not want to get invested in your career.

    All of these are voluntary actions and all can be professional decisions.
     
  5. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    And if the reason the decisions go against a person is because that person took an assignment the assessor was unwilling to take, it's not a decision made for professional reasons but for personal animus. And, therefore, it is an unprofessional decision.

    What you are describing is the ugly side of unionism. The union forces you to join them or they will ruin your career or job prospects.

    And remember, this guy technically hasn't hurt the assessor's interests as the assessor has plainly said by not taking the assignment that the assignment wasn't in his interests to begin with.
     
  6. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would argue that putting your own interests above others and doing the bare minimum in retaliation is selfish, petty, and unprofessional. No one gets to that level without a great deal of, often selfless and unconditional, support from senior referees and administrators. Referees are there to serve the game. It's a thankless task and something you really have to connect to, but at the end of the day, no one is there to see you. That doesn't mean that the referee doesn't matter and shouldn't be treated with respect, but I think humility and a desire to serve is something that we need from referees the higher they go. I want to see referees treated well, but I do not want them to be completely self interested and acting in a way that makes it even harder to work your way into that group. To me, that does not serve the game.
     
  7. retired_nat_ref

    retired_nat_ref New Member

    Feb 3, 2014
  8. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Yeesh! What a mess! Good news for me though. One step closer to doing an MLS game.
     
  9. thearbiter

    thearbiter Member

    May 24, 2007
    Albucrackee
  10. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's definitely unfortunate and reprehensible, but that's also the same behavior that some here seemed to endorse towards referees who accepted hypothetical replacement assignments... Can't have it both ways.
     
    RedStar91 repped this.
  11. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just to expand further on the article published by Steven Goff in the Washington Post, it is stated that (10) ten referees were approached at the referees training camp in Orlando earlier this month and were told that their continued support of the union would get them black listed from future MLS appointments.
     
  12. Dustinnotacop

    Dustinnotacop Member

    Jan 31, 2014
    If 10 of them have had this "talk" I think they should out the guy who threatened them.
     
  13. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Perhaps we should await more than anonymous allegations against unknown people before we pass judgment . . .
     
    Baka_Shinpan repped this.
  14. Dustinnotacop

    Dustinnotacop Member

    Jan 31, 2014
    Oh that...yeah I meant that.
     
  15. thearbiter

    thearbiter Member

    May 24, 2007
    Albucrackee
    1. There's nothing alleged about this. It happened.

    2. You don't file a complaint with the NLRB over alleged anything.

    3. There's nothing to be gained from naming names.
     
  16. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    1. And how do you know that?!?? I'm not saying it did or it didn't, but all I see is that someone claims it did. And I've been around far too much litigation to take anything that is said in such a case at face value.
    2. :rolleyes: YGTBSM. Incomplete and inaccurate allegations are made in all kinds of litigation.
    3. The NLRB ain't doin' nuth'n without names being named. And maybe, just maybe, there's more to the story. Maybe not, but I'm at a loss to why you would accept the allegation at face value.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there's a bit of a difference, though, Bill. If the allegations are true, I could totally see the same person inside PRO telling potential replacement referees, "if you don't accept these assignments, you'll never work in MLS."

    My argument about the way referee development occurs and how some senior, MLS-level referees might look poorly upon replacements is only part of my overall arguments. Taken in whole, I think they are much different than what is being alleged by PSRA in the WaPo article.
     
  18. Baka_Shinpan

    Baka_Shinpan Member

    Mar 28, 2011
    Between the posts
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    1st, technically the PSRA submitted a "charge" against PRO for a unfair labor violation. It is technically not a "complaint" which is what the NLRB files IF they find sufficient probable cause and the parties have not worked out their differences.

    2nd, all a "charge" is is an allegation. PSRA alleges that some of their members were threatened. We (the collective readers of this blog) have not heard who allegedly threatened them or who has allegedly been threatened.

    3rd, filing charges is part and parcel of any labor negotiating strategy. According to NLRB, there are over 20k charges filed each year! The vast majority are dropped or dismissed or otherwise resolved between the parties, a little over 1,000 result in actual complaints being filed by NLRB.

    So, all WE know is that Steve Taylor has talked to the Washington Post and that PSRA has filed a second unfair labor practices charge alleging threats by someone tied to PRO.
     
  19. Baka_Shinpan

    Baka_Shinpan Member

    Mar 28, 2011
    Between the posts
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    From the NLRB website:

    "Charges alleging Unfair Labor Practices are filed by individuals, unions or employers at NLRB regional offices, prompting an investigation by regional field examiners and attorneys. More than half of all charges are withdrawn or dismissed. In cases where an investigation finds probable merit, the majority settle by agreements between the parties. If no settlement can be reached, the Regional Director issues a complaint detailing the alleged violations."
     
  20. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's different in that PRO can just not hire you and PSRA can make it so you're not eligible to be hired. But it's the same in that it's denying someone a job for the sole reason of personal animus.
     
  21. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand that and if referees were to threatened on the replacement side, that would be awful as well.

    I just can't look favorably upon any behavior of that nature. A number of the guys at that level I came across were very generous with their time and support. I genuinely got a sense from a lot of them that they would be thrilled if their help got me to the same level. That should not stop, IMO, because it does not serve the game. I also think the idea that senior referees, who have a mentoring component as part of the selection process, withholding support and development from up and coming referees because they filled a gap during a labor dispute is a more onerous and selfish thing. If the PRSA creates a atmosphere where the guys at the top are more interested in protecting their own status than serving the game, then I think that would be unfortunate.
     
  22. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Three thoughts:

    - Culture clash? If PRO is coming at this from an "English slant", how do unions work in England (if they do)?
    - Union busting attempt? If so, good, unions have outlived their benefit.
    - Not true, or at least not as drastically bad when the full truth is known?
     
  23. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The unions are of a benefit for all parties at this level since individual agreements do not have to be made with all players. The basic compensation and benefits package is agreed to by the parties. It sets forth a minimum compensation package for the referees. I'm fine with this.

    In the case of VW they wanted to deal with a union because they felt it would be easier to deal with one single entity that represented all autoworkers.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/19/us-vw-usplant-idUSBREA1I0S820140219
     
  24. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you practice labor relations law? At any rate you certainly favor management in your numerous posts on this particular thread.
     
  25. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The VW example is interesting, but the real interest for VW is the works council and that could not be implemented without a union because of a strange, and perhaps antiquated, quirk in US law. PRO was able to negotiate agreements with 20+ referees absent a CBA.
     

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