Go read my opinion on the actions of the players. I thought the red was 100% justified. I don't like the actions of the players and team personnel in that situation. It is unprofessional and shouldn't happen. I have repeatedly stated in this forum that I believe refs should have more leeway to be more strict about these types of behavior. Should be no tolerance for it. Once refs put their foot down on it consistently it would stop. But the refs get no support to do this. Which is unfortunate.
That's like me saying its impossible for you to be fair and unbiased in this particular case because you are a ref. My only argument is that it LOOKS bad. These things should not be permitted because referees should be held to a higher standard when it comes to these types of behaviors. You want to eliminate any appearance of bias. If you think my standards are too high, ok. But no reason to attack me personally.
I went to an NBA game tonight. During a TV timeout the home team's mascot played a stupid prank on one of the officials by tapping him on the shoulder on the opposite side. The official played along, laughed, and then high-fived the mascot. I'll bet the visiting team was PISSED. Unfortunately, we live in a sporting culture where some fans might actually find something wrong with the officials doing something outside of their regular duties to improve the fan experience. Rockwell regularly signed red cards before his games and gave them to young children as a souvenir. This doesn't mean he's not impartial, it doesn't mean he wants to give a red card during the game, it just means he's a nice guy trying to improve a kid's experience at an MLS game. Anyone who sees this as anything more than that is either a fan trying to find some way to demonize referees or is just plain stupid. When people come onto the referee forum to bash referees, they should realize that these people they're talking about are more than just impersonal figures to us. Many of us are actually real-life friends with these guys. Just keep that in mind.
Sorry, need to bring this up again. You said you might be more inclined to believe my point if it wasn't for my affiliation. Who is acting biased here? So you choose to ignore a point whether its valid or not on the basis of someones club affiliation? That reflects on you if you are unable to get past that. If you disagree with my point of view you shouldn't need to reduce your self to such a lazy argument. If you don't think its unprofessional then that's fine. But don't let my affiliation stop you from forming your own opinion. If someone doesn't think the action looks bad, fine. We can disagree. I personally feel actions like that create an air of favoritism towards one side or the other. Whether or not that individual really feels that way or not doesn't matter when we are talking about professionals whose sole job is to oversee a game and make sure the players follow the rules of the competition. When your job is to be impartial, then you need to act that way at all times.
I know that the $440K has been cited extensively over the past week or so, but if it were that simple and if that was the true issue, it would have been settled by splitting the difference and throwing in a set of steak knives.
That isn't the way this action was reported. It wasn't reported as him signing it and giving it to a kid.
The "reporting" was some guy posting a picture on Twitter and Sounders fans assumed what they wanted.
Hey @asoc I thought you made some decent comments way back, but they are now lost in the noise and you are getting sucked into a meaningless dispute over perceived lack of professionalism.
Hi! "Long time listener, first time caller." Given PRO had me talk about this incident at the 2014 MLS pre-season referee camp and this is public record, I will share what I told them (with a little more insight). First, I do apologize to anyone I offended by this incident. When PRO called me last year to inform me an official complaint had been logged with them, I couldn't sleep for 2 nights as this weighed heavy on my mind that my action did something detrimental to fans and to MLS. For background, I have been giving away stuff to fans since my first year in the league. For the first 7 years, I gave away coins. I would buy ~$100 worth of coins from Official Sports before the season started and gave one away a coin after every game. I ran out of coins a few years ago and was at a game and I had no coin to give this young fan at a Chivas game. Since all I had was my YC in my pocket, I gave him this and his eyes lit up. Since then and for over two years, I have given away cards for 2 reasons: 1) Kids seem to like them better than coins and 2) Because I am cheap.. I realized a YC and a RC cost the same as a coin.. I could save half my money! I'll post a picture on twitter later from a game 2 years ago with some kids holding the cards I gave them as an example. Before each game, I pick a card (50% chance YC, 50% chance RC). On one side, I write the teams, date, and I sign it. The other side, I use to record information during the game (kickoff, goals, and misconduct). That way, the fan has a choice of which side they like better. After the game, I find a young fan to give the card to. Despite all my days of playing disc golf in college, I must have missed my target. Either that, or she gave the card to her dad from this particular game. If only I had better aim, if only I had picked a YC out of my bag instead of a red before the game, and if only the person in the picture displayed the other side of the card... anyway... The picture goes on twitter (with the signature side clearly showing my name), complaint filed, etc. So, no more signed cards any more after games. Now, I just sign Baldomero Toldeo's name to the cards I give away ;-) And with great reverence to Paul Harvey.... "And now you know THE REST OF THE STORY."
I'm just getting caught up on the last 70 messages or so. I want to say I can't believe this thread has blow up like this, but I can. I'm considering writing a longer post but want to read everything in full first. However, this post struck me and wanted to respond: I don't think anyone that knows me could possibly accuse me of being opposed to capitalism. However, the problem with your logic here is that the replacement referees are not taking a job that will help them. They are taking advantage of a one-off opportunity to referee in MLS for a small fee. When the work stoppage ends, they can no longer referee in the league. Maybe, in the case of someone younger like Da Silva, there is actually a financial incentive to these assignments. But I can assure you that in almost all of these cases there is no such real monetary incentive. Even if the fees are higher than what these replacements are used to, the time commitment alone to game prep and travel likely makes it a wash for anyone with a normal day job. As I said when the idea of a strike or work stoppage started to feed a public rumor, I could totally see aging Grade 4s who are unlike to ever see MLS, perhaps with no strong personal relationships to people in the league, taking games. For that narrow group, you are right that it is probably in their self-interest to take games (and a few of the people who worked this weekend probably qualify in that bunch). Financial benefits or lack thereof aside, if their dream is saying they worked MLS, then stepping in as a replacement makes total sense. But for the guys actively working NASL and MLS preseason and still moving up the ladder, including guys in the Platinum Program, there is no plausible way one can argue taking games is in their self-interest. It's not financially. It's not personally, for they are hurting relationships and in some cases ruining friendships. And it's not from a professional developmental standpoint; they can't stay in the league once it's over. If you're a younger Grade 4 (or lower) who has worked to get where you are, either on the cusp of MLS or at least in the conversation in the next 2-4 years, taking a game now is about the worst thing you could do for yourself. Except that part of the negotiations involve increasing game fees for lower-level games like NASL and USL Pro, which are the exact games that the replacements have been officiating. So, the union is actually advocating for higher pay for the very guys who are stepping in to take their games, who are undercutting the union's negotiating positioning by doing so. Without discussing or debating the merits of my political work, I might as well spell things out for those that don't already know. My ideology and my politics have led me to jobs/campaigns that have had me working aggressively against labor union causes in the past. But to look at PSRA and its members like a labor union--regardless of what you think about labor unions--is just wrong. You can disagree with PSRA's tactics or strategy or its negotiating position. But being reflexively opposed to PSRA based on political ideology just doesn't make sense (believe me, there are both hardcore liberals and conservatives as members) and is one of the reasons I've tried to keep politics out of the discussion as this whole issue developed. EDIT: the post immediately before mine is way better
OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD Don't screw this up man, it's cool it's all gonna be cool "So Hey uhhh Corey...what's your 40 time bro?" DAMMIT you suck you suck so hard you blew it
So I was mistaken. Corey Rockwell proved that this is, indeed, another type of person who signs up on this site simply to post in the referee forum. But if I guessed that one MLS/PSRA official signed up for an account and one replacement official also signed up for an account in the last few hours, I wonder if I'd also be mistaken about that.
I don't know that I would go that far. I think fans are biased and lack objectivity, but they do know the game and can tell when a referee is struggling. I really don't like that sort of attitude.
You say the replacement officials are acting against their self-interests. I say that's your perspective. From their perspective, they're acting in their self-interest. They may be wrong about what their interests are or you may be wrong about what their interest are. But unless MLS has some pictures of them doing something they don't want to see the light of day, they freely choose to take the assignments and people (generally) don't choose to act against what they perceive as their self-interest. Now, we could have a long discussion about whether perceived self-interest is the same as actual self-interest (No) but everyone involved is acting on perceived self-interest (and, arguably against their collective and individual self-interest).
If that's the case, then find an example where the referee acted inappropriately (in your opinion) from a game where (a) your team wasn't playing; (b) your team didn't lose; and (c) the interaction wasn't with the fans of your archival. You'll note I haven't responded or commented on the situation you described. That's because you have innate bias towards any fan interaction in that situation. Plus, most Sounders fans were ticked that Dempsey got cut down in that game and Alonso was sent off. Too many emotions against Portland for a Sounders fan to start complaining about referee behavior in that match. Find a neutral example, then I'll listen. Thus far, you have given this example and the Marrufo-jersey incident, which everybody agrees was inappropriate and notes he was duly punished. These two events don't in any way show a "pattern" of PSRA officials acting irresponsibly.
From a pure management point of view, PRO had little choice, unless they were comfortable with gambling that PSRA wouldn't strike: - So they go with no lockout and keep negotiating - PSRA strikes - Either cancel the games (which actually would be the better choice) - or run with local replacements and risk catastrophe (heck I don't want that whistle, I know when I"m over my head). If games and replacements suck, PSRA has the power "see we have lots of value" and PRO is now stuck with hurry up and get a deal, or cancel. When the "no" came on no strike/no lockout, the power goes to the first one who makes a move, they set the stage for the next decision. In this case PRO risked the already sunk cost of the replacements and it worked. Nothing really bad happened. Had the replacements sucked wind, PSRA now has the ball. As for having a plan, yup, standard contingency planning that any decent manager always has. I'd bet the farm that PSRA also had a plan, we may never know what it was, but they had one. For all we know they were going to announce strike at the last second, or just after the game, or before second games, or never. As for working against "self-interest" that only is valid if you believe the things the PSRA are asking for are legit. If you don't agree with what they are asking for, then you are working in your self-interest by accepting the scab assignment. We simply don't know, well most of us anyway, because we don't know what the hang-up is. For those retired folks, they struck me as the "strange ones" here, they know the life that is an MLS ref, so you would figure they would have sympathy for the PSRA? As for the "never will be there" replacements. How man would turn down the one time chance? Not many. Heck I put off leg surgery for my first PDL game because it was the highest game I'd done. People make strange choices. Someone tied this to the players union next year. That may have a big factor, or none, again, we flat out don't know. Have assignments for next week come out? It's now tuesday, shouldn't they be out yet? If so, then why aren't they? Maybe PRO is hoping to end the lockout? Demonizing one side over the other is just silly. Most of us don't know the issues, so we can't made an intelligent decision on which side is the bad guy here. One thing is for sure, in the short term, soccer is the loser. So far neither side has a strong advantage in the PR department. That may never happen because soccer is not the high publicity sport some others are. When NFL officials went on strike it mattered to way more people, it mattered to the gambling industry, it mattered to TV stations. MILLIONS were on the line on a single blown call. MLS strike, not so much. I love this game, I love being a ref. This one just doesn't get the publicity to get any real PR traction outside the referee community. Heck I'd bet many of the fans don't know it's an issue.