MLS NEEDS academies, really?

If you watched St. John's, you might have noticed one of their players- a forward named Walter Hines. I mention him because he was widely touted here as the #2 prospect from the RBNY youth academy, a system which some BigSoccer posters (not me) seem to think is a pretty good example of a professional development program.

Anyway, Hines has scored all of three goals in two college seasons. Not exactly an impressive showing for MLS "pro development."

i watched a little of both games, but remeber that the u17 world cup was going on at the same time, and to be honest is hard to stay focused on those games that just focus on kicking the ball to the other side the field, and when you finally start getting into it, they have a time out...

of course some academy players are not going to be pro level, you have to remember that some academy players are there only bc their uncles or their cousins have money, or somebody in their family has connections.

kids perform better in different environments, sometimes the dude that was great last year is not doing as great, rivaldo went from being the best in the world in barcelona to sit on the bench next year at milan...

think of van der vart of huntelar at real madrid.

in the college game you have kids beatin the crap out of each other, when you see that the kid can pass the ball easy 2 yards away to his teammate but instead he decides to kick it to the other side of the field to a "dangerous" tall forward, thats like wow... how does a real prospect shows he can play with those type of teammates?

bc academy developed messi and cristiano ronaldo it doesnt mean all academy players are going to be like them.

point is, academies are very essential to go to the next level, if not, well dont be suprise and dont go so hard on american soccer when we struggle to score a goal in the world cup, and when we get beat by slovakia...

charlotte and nashville were just examples of a few cities with some prospects where there is not pro hope...

kids knowing they could play for mls one day would prob train harder than kids knowing they may want to play for pdl or usl...

is not the same thing, when you are young, you always want to have that shot in the professional game, i mean, you always want to think you have what it takes to play the highest level possible.

mls academies should not be a debate, should be a reality.

expanding mls academies through the country and why not, maybe even mexico, canada and central america may not be a bad idea, i think barcelona and real madrid does this... idk what kind of players they get, but im sure they get a lot of marketing and publicity...

Yeah but I doubt that Ibisevic or Solari actually developed in college soccer. Solari played but one year in junior college. Once again no one is saying that college soccer sucks. Hell if it produces more Dempsey's great but what I don't like is players staying in the NCAA until 22 or 23. I always wonder how good Ralston or Pat Noonan would've been if they turned pro at 20.

Yes they are. That was the point of this thread. To show those who doubt college soccer so much, that it is doing well for MLS and the USMNT.

what are we supposed to say? that college soccer is great?

the point is of the thread is to stablish, to form strong academies.

college soccer is the way to go for those trying to get an education, the sons of lawyers, doctors, professors.

academies are for the people that is more serious about it, and ones with less academic skills, and hopelly the ones dreaming of one day become world champions.

i mean come on, college soccer may not be as bad as some of us make it sound, but could you imagine messi playing college soccer right now? could you imagine cristiano ronaldo at 20 playing for ucla????

the truth is we need both in this country --the college draft and the academies.
A club cannot afford to ignore either stream of possible players.

amen to that.

I’m not sure why some are trying to frame this as a “Euro way” vs. an “American way” debate. Putting a young player in a professional environment at a younger age can only help their development. I’m not sure how you can argue otherwise.

At any rate, I just want to look at the Toronto examples from the OP list to make a few points:

Sam Cronin - #2 pick in the draft and earned his callup to the Gold Cup back in the summer. He was so good that he forced a very savvy veteran, Carl Robinson, out of the lineup; 27 games of experience.
O'Brian White - #4 pick in the draft; he was guaranteed to be the #1 pick had he gone in 2008. Unfortunately, he got an ACL injury his senior year and recovery carried over into his rookie campaign. Regardless, he earned some playing time for a loaded attack with Toronto; 9 games of experience.
Stefan Frei - he miraculously dropped all the way to #13 in the draft and proceeded to take the starting spot away from Canada's emerging #1 goalkeeper. He started and played in 26 games and has the option to pick between the US and Sweden (or Switzerland, I can't remember).

1 – Sam Cronin didn’t force Carl Robinson out of the line-up. Robinson mostly started with Cronin until he was injured.

2 – Toronto had a loaded attack? Could have fooled me.

3 – Calling Greg Sutton Canada’s emerging No. 1 goalkeeper actually made me laugh out loud. Sutton is about fifth in a very weak keeper pool. It’s Switzerland, by the way.

So, you’re exaggerating to make your point. You should go into politics.

I’m going to add a fourth name to your post – Nana Attakora. Just 20, Attakora emerged as TFC’s most consistent centerback in 2009. His development pathway? Not through an academy, but through a $12,500 MLS development contract. At 17, he was way down the radar of Canadian prospects. Now, after three years of work in a professional environment, he’s in the conversation for a national team call-up and to go to Europe. If Attakora goes to the NCAA at 17, he’s playing in some God forsaken division 2 school now (or in Canada) and probably is looking at a future in USL-1, if he was lucky.
The faster players get into professional environments, he better off they are.

What are you trying to say that only the children of the upper middle class go to college? Here in the US, college is something that people of all incomes can aspire to. We don't have a class system like in certain other countries where only the elite go to school. I am a lawyer but if my son is 16 and had a GA contract thrown at him, I would not force him to go to college.

You know, in a nation of 300 million people, with a population spread all over the country, we kind of need the NCAA system, because the available scouting resources just aren't there. A lot of kids will get passed by. In other countries, kids that go unnoticed because of where their from or they don't get everything together as a teen, will probably go to a lower division team and work their way up. We don't have that system here (except for PDL, which a lot of college players are in already). That's not saying MLS clubs shouldn't have academies, I'm just saying don't expect that much more super talented teens coming through the ranks. Kids like an Altidore or a Donovan just don't come around that often. The main reason clubs would want to have academies is that, if they're good at gathering and developing talent, they get to have a larger pool to draw young talent from. Remember, just as most highly regarded talents from premier league academies will probably get loaned to a lower league team (i.e. Eric Lichaj at Lincoln City right now), most academy talent will go to college and PDL teams anyway. If we want to get the most out our available talent, we need both.

That was where I made the comment before about developing world class players "is more about culture than the system."

Academies might help identify the players earlier and get some players to choose soccer (earlier) instead of drifting to the other major sports. Academies will simply get a few more players into the professional ranks earlier than college would.

As far as development, an academy system isn't going to miraculously start developing Ronaldos and Messis for the US.

That's why I say MLS doesn't NEED academies. MLS would still likely get those players that go through the academy system and lose them to bigger leagues once they developed into upper level players and/or got to where they could get huge salaries elsewhere. So for the league, getting them at even 24 or 25 is not different than getting them at 20 or 21.

Which brings us back to the real point. I'm sure these guys were 90% finished products before they got to college, because, except for maybe keepers, you're supposed to be 90% complete before you're college-aged. The real problem in our development system is that guys like Pontius are developing in their frosh and soph seasons.

Ralston is another guy who made "The Leap" his Junior year. . .unfortunately that was 1994, so he didn't have the choice to go to MLS. But his case would have been even more obvious. . . an astounding 19 goals and 18 assists in about 20 GP.

If that had been 2004, he'd surely have gotten the strong GenAd offer. And one thing I imagine that would have gone differently in his career is that he probably would have spent his entire career as a #10 rather than playing right mid. Why? Because he would have been one of the highest draft picks, and probably wouldn't have wound up on a team with a star at his position (as he did when drafted by the Mutiny, who had Carlos Valderrama, in the league's first year).

it is very difficult to pay for college (my own experiences) and you can end up with a lot of debt which is kind of hard to think of when my older brother has an enginering degree and he is been looking for a job for about 4 months now, prob more.

college soccer is even more difficult for some of us with not much economic support from parents.

if i had the chance to jump into an academy after high school i would not even think it twice... that would have been great for somebody who only dreamed of playing pro since a kid.

playing 3 years of academy in El Salvador, kind of hard to play for teams that would not connect 4 passes together...

i think mls academies are essential, but again i may be wrong

fyp.

+1 - I don't really understand how/why some would argue about it. Academies are/will be a great addition to the US school-based system. They provide more opportunities to talented players. More opportunities for talent to grow, I thought, was always a good thing. And in a nation this big, talent doesn't just fall through the cracks, there are canyons out there. So it won't immediately (Or ever) yield Messis and Ronaldos, who cares. Thats not the point, the point is to create the opportunity. Period, End of Story.

Well MLS teams are adding academies, but they need to bring back reserve games also. The players coming into MLS are getting better and that is a positve impact for the league. Maybe bumb of a raise for the cap and pay these player a bit better.

i agree with reserves.

whoever is againts mls academies needs to realize these.

1. Not everybody have money to afford college.

2. Not everybody is the son of a lawyer or a doctor, some people do have limited academic skills in these world, unfortantly.

3. Some people only dream of playing professional soccer, they dont picture themselves making phone calls working at a office all day long, not everybody was borned to be a manager or a marketer...

4. Street futbol studs have needs

5. If life was all about having a big house on the lake, being part of a country club and playing golf on the weekends, then life would be boring