MLS/NASL partnership could do.

Discussion in 'NASL' started by eclipse02, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. Cactus Hibs

    Cactus Hibs Member

    May 11, 2006
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Hibernian FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The obvious reason is that they haven't begun marketing themselves in earnest yet. It's foolish to think that this is all that the money and sports-marketing experience behind NYCFC can muster.
     
  2. Cactus Hibs

    Cactus Hibs Member

    May 11, 2006
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Hibernian FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think "the state of things currently" is largely irrelevant to what the landscape will look like as 2015 approaches in earnest. At this point, the critics are right...the club's current "marketing" efforts are essentially an anemic attempt to peddle MCFC stateside. But how any right-minded person can assume that a Yankees/MCFC partnership won't ramp things up exponentially once there is actually something to ramp up is beyond me.
     
  3. Cactus Hibs

    Cactus Hibs Member

    May 11, 2006
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Hibernian FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you (intentionally?) miss his point. You might be aware that the Yankees have considerable financial resources and an extensive broadcasting and marketing infrastructure at their disposal. And they've been around a little while. If you really think that won't be brought to bear behind NYCFC once it actually exists, and that it won't go a long way towards swaying casual or unaffiliated NYC soccer fans, you're beyond naive.
     
  4. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I luv this thread! :geek: Keep throwing shit against the wall... Eventually something will stick.
     
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  5. mng146

    mng146 Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    He intentionally misses a lot of points. It's a symptom of Cosmos fanboy syndrome. They're legends in their own minds who believe they see all and know all. Just roll with it. :D
     
  6. TerminusFooty

    TerminusFooty Member+

    Feb 4, 2012
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just hope you guys draw each other in the Open Cup. Sure to be some entertaining threads if that happens...
     
  7. mng146

    mng146 Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    Be sure to catch those threads before the servers crash...
     
  8. Mr.Smartypants

    Mr.Smartypants Red Card

    Jul 1, 2010
    Club:
    University College Dublin
    Being as i live here and have been a major player in the area soccer scene since 2001, i am pretty confident i can speak for the majority of what i would describe as serious soccer fans. I dont dispute they will get people to games, i only state that the people they do get are going to be extremely casual followers and very new followers of the sport at best. There is legitimately ZERO organic support amongst the harder core element in this city for NYCFC aka Man City USA.

    Dont believe, fine, just wait and see.
     
  9. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Ah. So your complaint is that they're not proper or legitimate as opposed to ... nevermind.

    It has been my experience is that those that are worried about "hard core" and "serious" usually have no idea what they're really talking about. They're so stuck in their own internal fantasy world that they filter everything to point that they can't see straight.

    Obviously, that isn't universal, and perhaps it doesn't apply to you. But if 20-25,000 casual fans manage to turn out to every game, I'm sure the proper fans will enjoy making fun of them and the team itself won't give a rat's ass.

    The fact that I can't think of a professional soccer team within a hundred miles or so of the NYC area that would qualify as "organic" probably isn't relevant.
     
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  10. mng146

    mng146 Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    So casual soccer fans are insignificant since they aren't derived from living organisms? Okay, now I get it! ;)
     
  11. jatrain

    jatrain Member

    Jun 29, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I would imagine that if the amount of "serious" soccer fans in NYC are proportional to other cities in the country (or higher given the international character of the city), then there has to be a significant (majority) number of "serious" fans who are not currently supporting a local team, considering the huge population of fans is under served (and hasn't been captured) by NYRB and the Cosmos low attendance (compared to what a 1st Division NYC team would expect to draw) doesn't really show that the "serious" fans are supporting them.

    Seems like the majority of "serious" fans are free agents without a local team right now.
     
  12. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #87 AmeriSnob, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
    If 20-25000 casual fans turn out to NYCFC games, it will be a huge disappointment. The hype and money surrounding this team demands greater expectations than "slightly better than Kansas City and Portland."
    I think you are misinterpreting the post you relied to as a complaint, rather than analysis of the situation on the ground. Considering MLS 2.0 marked a change in marketing toward trying to convert existing soccer fans rather than fans of other sports, it is worth investigating reasons why they have failed to do so in their biggest market.

    I immediately reject any idea that New Yorker soccer fans are inherently special in their fandom. That is not to say that they are not affected by what goes on around them that may not affect fans in other cities, Red Bull being chief among them.

    Just some attendance analysis, you can skip this:
    Show Spoiler

    1996-2005 (Metrostars): 17669
    2006-2009 (RB @ the Meadowlands): 15074 or 16022 w/0 2009
    2006-pres. (RB as a whole): 16805 or 17706 w/o 2009

    These numbers lead me to believe that the branding had a direct negative effect on overall attendance. In the same venue, the team performed significantly worse even after removing the outlier year, and the recent rise are directly attributable to a combination of the stadium move, a better record recently and the presence of more big-name players. In other words, it is improving despite the Red Bull name rather than because of it (and yes, there was always the possibility of Red Bull owning the team without renaming it, meaning having all the positives without any real negative).
    In short, team branding matters, to both casual fans and supporters. The Red Bull supporters section has undergone much more turnover than any other team. Hardly anyone in today's South Ward was a supporter pre-2006, I'd venture to say around 10 percent at best since many people have left the section over the years due to the brand at first and other shenanigans afterward. I'd also put the number of pre-RBA supporters at <50 percent as the supporters groups have expanded greatly since the stadium opened.

    What happened to all the fans that left Red Bull behind, both casual fans and supporters? They can only be either Cosmos fans or not following local game at all. If European soccer fans in NYC were not turned off already by MLS rules, the fact that their only professional local team is named after an energy drink surely turned a lot of them off, possibly for good. If that were not true, then these fans would be following NYCFC and they would have some sort of a supporters group. But we don't see that at all, and no reason to believe they are some silent majority. NYCFC has only a handful of fans at best right now.

    So what we can take from this is:

    (1) Having gone through the Red Bull thing, soccer fans in NYC are already harder to convert than before, meaning any brand that is too much Man City will have compounding negative effects.

    (2) Throwing money at a branding problem does not negate the problem, only mask it.

    (3) Supporters make up a large and reliable part of attendance, and serve as a foundation from which attendance can expand. NYCFC will not bode well in the bad years if they don't have any.
     
  13. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Says who?

    In what reality?

    This is soccer in the U.S. we're talking about, right?
     
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  14. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LA Galaxy numbers will be a huge disappointment. Got it. :rolleyes:
     
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  15. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, given the amount of investment being put into this team, the fact that they will have replaced the Galaxy as the league's #1 glamor team in terms of marketing, a stadium within the 5 boroughs with a dedicated subway station, the practical lack of a capacity restriction, and a potentially larger ability to spend when they enter the league due to a new CBA and TV contracts, I would expect higher numbers than 20000 to show up at Yankee Stadium. I would put 25000 at the low end of acceptability.

    If they get 20000 given all these things, it will be due to some other reason than "well, this is US soccer."
     
  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Says who? NYCFC hasn't even started to seriously market their team, doesn't have a defined brand, just got a head coach, doesn't have a single player, etc, etc. It's a bit much to say that they are now the #1 glamor team in MLS when right now they are little more than a circle with NYCFC written in it.
     
  17. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If NYCFC doesn't sign Messi or Ronaldo, you'll know they're a joke on the good citizens of NYC.

    amirite?
     
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  18. Mr.Smartypants

    Mr.Smartypants Red Card

    Jul 1, 2010
    Club:
    University College Dublin
    Um, yes they do....it couldn't be more obvious.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is only because you hate the team. They don't have a brand yet. Its just speculation that they'll be another Chivas type team. For the moment they seem to be doing everything right and I really doubt that we have another Chivas on our hands.
     
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  20. Mr.Smartypants

    Mr.Smartypants Red Card

    Jul 1, 2010
    Club:
    University College Dublin
    Yes, i agree...they've been doing a great job using NYCFC so far to promote nothing but Manchester City and their players, etc. If that's doing everything right, i don't want to know what doing it wrong is. Their brand is Manchester City FC, its the only reason they invetsed to be in NYC and MLS...to further the Man City brand in the ever expanding global soccer brand war.
     
  21. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't forget the Yankees are the fall back position if Man City doesn't gain any traction... Of course that won't win over any Mets' fans. But I'm sure there are plenty of unaffiliated, novice/potential soccer fan hipsters just waiting for a team to call their own. :rolleyes:
     
  22. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chivas also started pretty well, on the road they were a good draw in heavy Latino markets, I know here in Chicago we used to have the Chivas attendance bump.

    So nothing initially wrong if MancityNYCFC starts as a Chivas, the bad thing would be if they then hire Vergara to run the team.
     
  23. Eric B

    Eric B Member

    Feb 21, 2000
    the LBC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I did not think winner of the "Most Lacking in Self-Awareness" BS post of the year award would be wrapped up by January 6th...
     
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  24. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #99 AmeriSnob, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
    Specifically talking from a league marketing perspective, there were two reasons this team exists: the hope that they can drive TV ratings and get the league to be more relevant in its largest market. They will probably want to set goals better than "slightly above Portland."

    The league will probably do everything they can to assist in this, as they already have for years in trying to secure the team a stadium. This is the league's pet project and it's a big risk, so they probably are expecting a big reward as well (aside from $100 million, that is).
     
  25. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Contrary to what you might think American soccer fans existed before 1994.
     

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