MLS Attendance Analysis: PreSeason

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by edwardgr, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They will not be in the new digs for 2015 I believe. Not sure what type of capacity they will have in the first year, but I would assume it is bigger than the 18k. 2016 will be a different story.
     
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  2. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    in the most recent things i've read and heard about the stadium the number they are now putting out there is 19k.
     
  3. fuzzx

    fuzzx Member+

    Feb 4, 2012
    Brossard
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    IIRC they may open the new stadium during the 2015 season, if all goes well.

    Regardless, the citrus bowl can obviously reach any capacity the FO chooses, I expect them to do a ton of market research and have a good handle on true demand.

    There is really no way we can predict it.

    @edwardgr regardless of the capacity, isn't having a stable just below average team a net positive for the overall average? or is that just for median?

    I mean that given the large number of fluctuating teams we currently have, having a new team (hypothetically) getting 18,000 each game is "good" right
     
  4. aperfectring

    aperfectring Member+

    Jul 13, 2011
    Hillsboro, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Any value added onto a list which is below average will cause the new average to be lower than the old one was without that value.

    Overly simple example, but one that demonstrates the point.
    List 1:
    1, 3, 5, 7, 9 - # elements 5, sum 25, average 5
    List 2:
    1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 3 - # elements 6, sum 28, average 4.67
    List 3:
    1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 4.5 - # elements 6, sum 29.5, average 4 + 5.5/6
     
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  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the thing about the really bad attendance teams...they can go up 2000 per game and still be awful, and nobody will notice it. Seattle's bump of half that will get all of the attention.

    Look at Colorado and Dallas...they have steadily been increasing their average attendance with very, very little notice in these threads, because they've gone from "awful" to "bad." In a year or two, they'll be "below average." Still nobody will notice.

    Point being, Chivas could go to 11K and still be the butt of all the jokes around here, but that kind of increase would be very significant in the context of "can MLS average 19,000?"
     
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  6. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #131 edwardgr, Feb 5, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
    That is one of the reasons I have added the team data to the weekly posts. It is certainly something other sites were doing but adding it here provides more of a complete picture. 10k from Chivas would be both a disappointment compared to their historical numbers and signs of improvement. So people will take notice even while we complain ;)
     
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  7. Allez RSL

    Allez RSL Member+

    Jun 20, 2007
    Home
    So this might address what @fuzzx was asking. A new "just below average" team would hurt the average. But an existing "really below average" team that increases its attendance to "just below average" would improve the overall league average.
     
  8. profiled

    profiled Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    slightly north of a mile high
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Do we have a list of the potential increases for each team (i.e. Total Capacity - 2013 Averages)?

    The Galaxy have to be up their pretty high on the list (ignoring artificially limited stadiums)?
     
  9. aperfectring

    aperfectring Member+

    Jul 13, 2011
    Hillsboro, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers

    I used the capacities listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_MLS_Season

    Chivas: 18,634
    NE: 7,541
    DC: 5,821
    Dallas: 5,820
    NY: 5,728
    LA: 4,848
    Chicago: 4,772
    Columbus: 4,065
    Toronto: 3,728
    Colorado: 2,646
    Houston: 2,077
    Salt Lake: 995
    Vancouver: 962
    Philadelphia: 633

    No real potential (alphabetical):
    Kansas City
    Montreal
    Portland
    San Jose
    Seattle

    Notes: Chivas was calculated based on 27,000 capacity. I know they operate on reduced capacity, but their 2013 attendance was so low that they will be top of this list in any case. Also: I couldn't easily find the capacity they actually operate with.

    LA is 6th of 14 teams which have any significant potential to increase in attendance.
     
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  10. profiled

    profiled Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    slightly north of a mile high
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    So in theory we have 1,160,590 extra fans a year to fill things up (just took the numbers above * 17).
     
  11. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And that being said, if Orlando is just shy of the target that is still better than being significantly shy. So while it would not help per se, it certainly hurts far less than a consistent significant gap. And a stable 18k attendance would make the Median more stable in that upper range, but would not in and of itself help get to a 19k median.
     
  12. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't forget San Jose has two large stadium games this year. Stanford against LA so expect a sellout or close to, and opening Levi Stadium against Seattle, also a likely sellout. I would not be at all surprised to see San Jose at or near 15k for the year (if not greater).
     
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  13. fuzzx

    fuzzx Member+

    Feb 4, 2012
    Brossard
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Yeah, a "more stable" media is more what I was thinking of.

    To reformulate my point, a new stable 18k team means that failures and fluctuations by other teams have less of an impact on the overall average.
     
  14. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd be impressed if Chivas could go up that much. I don't have any particular faith that they will (not clear to me they've improved anything despite all the roster and coaching changes), but it'd definitely be an impressive bump.
     
  15. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They won't. Every league needs a whipping boy... a LA Clippers if you will. Darwin says so.

    The fact that we are so appalled at their performance as an organization, actually highlights how effective most of the teams are run. The exception proves the rule.
     
  16. Allez RSL

    Allez RSL Member+

    Jun 20, 2007
    Home
    The same Clippers who are currently 15 games ahead of the Lakers? If so, I guess I like Chivas's chances going forward.
     
  17. ChrisV323

    ChrisV323 Member

    Jan 15, 2011
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    12,400for the LA Galaxy game vs Shirack FC
     
  18. Bubba1971

    Bubba1971 Member+

    Nov 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They only had about half the stadium open, so the section that were looked pretty full. Quite a few Shirak/Armenia fans there, maybe 50/50.

    Sad to think that Chivas would love to have that during the regular season.

    The next pre-season home game is Galaxy vs. Galaxy II. Should be interesting to see if they can keep these numbers up through pre-season.
     
  19. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    That's the beauty of American leagues. Every once in a while even the whipping boys get a nice run.
     
  20. carnifex2005

    carnifex2005 Member+

    Jul 1, 2008
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
  21. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not bad for a preseason match.
     
  22. MLSFan123

    MLSFan123 Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Boston Area
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was not that long ago that would have been a decent Wednesday night league game attendance. :)
     
  23. gremio1903

    gremio1903 Member+

    Aug 10, 2011
    Uruguaiana, RS (BRA) [last: Rockville, MD]
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Or Chivas, last season, any day... :whistling:
     
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  24. Quakesss

    Quakesss Member+

    Nov 16, 2013
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's the Derby! Gonna be interesting to see if the crowd is predominantly LA or SJ since the game is smack in the middle of the 2 cities.
     
  25. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes I suppose that was an understatement on my part. That is exceptional for a pre-season match. Particularly one that is not on the cusp of the season, we are still three weeks away.
     
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