Mizuno Thread [8] - Post all info, pics & questions here!

That's not exactly correct either. Certainly if you were alone and couldn't walk, you would die. But with your family unit to take care of you, you could survive without being able to walk. And living with family was one of the necessities for successful reproduction back then, as women are not exactly able to go around gathering food for themselves and their children during the later stages of pregnancy and immediately after birth. They depended on family members to help them out for a period of time.

 

How far back are you talking?

 

I was referring to pre-agrarian societies (aka hunter & gatherer). As since the time we switched to agrarian societies, we have pretty much done many things that are against natural selection...

 

I did not disagree with the premise of your statement. Just that evolution would weed out these feet that do not impede someone from reproducing.

I was talking about a person who becomes unable to walk, not an infant born without legs or some other blatant deformity like that. Since everyone is born unable to walk, I did not envision that as being the basis of noob-bob's statement. So I was working on the assumption that the person is already a loved and cared for member of the family.

Even in pre-agrarian societies, there are uses for people who are not able to go out and hunt or gather. They can tend the children, make tools, make and repair clothing, etc. These societies would have very little benefit from killing a family member who can still provide something for the family. The only situation I could see them doing so, is if they are in a famine and do not have food enough to go around. But that would be a very extreme case when the entire family is in danger of dying.

(And BTW, yes I do know what I'm talking about, I am an anthropologist)

 

I think all of the foot postures, unless you are born with it, are developed?? Structural changes throughout birth and in the early stages of life when the ligaments and bones develop, determine that. The ligaments are included in the surrounding tissue of the arch, so of course they play a role in its stability, and you cannot strengthen ligaments. I do not believe that barefoot running will not change the posture of your feet, at least not significantly.

60-80% of the population overpronate with their foot posture, I would say that's a good chunk of "most people." The majority pronate, that's how the body cushions the force from above but the overpronators and the supinators need the support. I agree that sometimes the orthotics are maybe pushed too much and some people may be talked into buying expensive things they may not need. But some people need those orthotics or inner soles to help our feet

 

I dont think the number needing support is less, I think the number of people aware of it are less. I don't think that foot posture is "very correctable" without orthotics, at all, and I don't believe that arch height and strength can be improved with barefoot training at all, otherwise why aren't all our shoes based with barefoot soles? The structure of the foot is very different to the knee, you can't compare an ACL to the ligaments of the foot. They are not surface level quotes or easily digested and flawed research, I happen to do this sort of thing for a job. And if you need more info on my points or the foot posture stats about the population I'm sure I can point you in the right direction. I stand by what I said, insoles are not counterproductive at all. They have a role and I'm sure there are others like me who wear them and swear by them.

I will just have to agree to disagree with you sir.

 

$$$

 

Has anyone tried the Mizuno Wave Ghost?
Monitoring a pair in the sg-version

 

I think that may be... I wasn't arguing against anything you were saying about the foot; you don't need to defend your statement against what I was saying. I was just trying to inform you why an undesirable trait, such as poor arches, would not necessarily get eliminated through natural selection (similar to something like male pattern baldness, not every male has it, but enough have it who are able to reproduce that it continues to exists).

 

I know exactly what you were trying to say with the knee and the foot, but you cant compare apples and oranges; they are so vastly different. It's easy to stand there and criticise statistics, but I have my sources and they happen to be credible. You either pronate or supinate right? The natural way of cushioning load is to pronate the foot, so how is it that unbelievable? I'm not saying that all these people need orthotic correction, obviously everyone won't show symptoms that need to be addressed. And how is that destroying my argument? I said that foot posture is developed if not congenital, and that once the ligaments lose their structure you can't strengthen them, and I don't believe it is mostly defined by muscle strength at all. I see what your saying, but again in my opinion orthotics can be quite an effective way to temporarily support the foot when you need it. The body is not as well designed as you think

 

It's more expensive to create a minimalist shoe then to create one with a thick outsole, comfortable midsole with support and a heel counter? :/

 

interesting use of the word perceived, but it will be interesting to see what the market is like in 10 years time

 

This conversation has been pretty eye-opening. Thanks for all the great input. As someone with severe flatfeet and a heel striker which led to some custom-made orthortics, I can see where both sides are coming from. I was 19 when I got the orthortics and was constantly heavily padded Asics running shoes (which are comfortable as hell). I weaned off it orthortics abit simply because it didn't fit my other shoes as well, so I attempted to use more of a fore/mid foot striking technique which has helped with my feet/knee pains. That's on a personal note, although I would think people in a more sedentary lifestyle would be better off with insoles to support their feet as they simply wouldnt have the time to train up the muscles.

more marketing required I guess to change the problem. Most people still equate cushioning to great running shoes!

 

I have learned A LOT so far.....

With that said--anyone if Rakuten will be having one of those free international shipping deals any time soon?

 

from experience over the past few years there's usually one around June/July? last year's was August IIRC