Milosevic Found Dead in his Cell (R)

No, I don't.

 

The vote by Montenegro for independence in May would've finshed him off as well.

 

Then why express a preference for the continuation of this interminable legal proceeding to a timely demise?

 

I wrote why.

 

"I'd rather he lived and was fully discredited among his adherents, through a process they could witness, then to die and still not be convicted. I wanted conviction; free, world-opinion-ed, refutation of his way of being in the world...codified and institutionalized"
IMO, he was not being discredited to his adherents; I doubt many supporters or opponents were watching the lengthy process, & the inevitable guilty verdict would not change any opinions. The International Court has become a massive waste of time & money. It's better that Slobo's dead.

 

You have no idea who was watching. Do you know any Serbs living in Serbia and Montenegro? This is a weak tributary to the conversation. I'm glad you're glad he's dead. For those looking to produce a world governed by a rule of law which emerges from democratic instutions and citizenship working toward best practice, there might be other considerations.

 

Neither do you, yet you expressed the preference. Any proof of any media coverage at all in Serbia, much less massive ratings, followed by expressions of regret and sorrow by the populace?
It's hard to believe that you consider this tribunal a sign of progress, rather than an unwieldy, lengthy & expensive show trial.

 

While this trial, and the ICTY generally, may have not run as many would have like for it to, it was an important step forward--its trials and errors have given the ICC some guidance at least.

 

The thing is that they had done many trials before Slobo and they went off with generally little problems. The defendants recognized the courts and didn't try to stall the proceedings in any way.

The real issue is when the big fish are brought to trial. These kind of people never recognize the courts and would certainly try to hijack the process.

 

So what is the just option?

 

Summary tribunal & immediate execution? Certainly no more justice that Slobo gave his victims.

 

But that is sorta the point if you're trying to promote justice.

 

Nuremburg-style justice would be more efficent. At least the judges there kept a grip on things.

 

More efficient it would likely be. A couple years ago I got the chance to talk with one of the prosecutors of sorts of the tribunal, and we spoke about this. His take on it was that, in many of the countries that are seeking to heal the wounds of human rights abuses, the "truth" half of truth and reconciliation commissions seems to do more for the people. Just having all of the truth told does more to help the victims, and all of the citizens for that matter, move forward. In the same way, a longer trial can have more value if all of the grievances are properly heard. It takes a long time. Of course, all of this still is not to suggest the Tribunal could have run better.

 

normally i don't like to speak ill of the dead, so i'll just be quiet

 

Funny thing is the Croats sided with the Nazis during WWII. Remember Jasenovac you freakin c*nt!!! The western media wants to ignore YOUR war crimes but the truth is out there. I won't say anything about the Croats celebrating Operation Storm.

 

Or perhaps it is like Little Nicky, and a large pineapple is used instead.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4799880.stm


Well...there you have it.......heart attack did him in.

I always doubted that he would have actually killed himself....he was a stubborn stubborn man.

 

It was just that one of his compatriots killed himself in prison recently.

I wonder at times if the Romanian precedent is better. The Neuremburg trials were a compromise. Milosevic's trial I think was something of a joke.

Luckily as a private citizen that is an issue I never have to deal with.

 

Clean up the room. Rumsfeld checks in at 3:00

 

Yeah, the western media have always loved us. Ha, but you know the truth, my child. Tell it to the world, ha, ha.

 

The truth is that WWII provided cover for a civil war in Yugoslavia, a war that was long simmering (in the same way the war provided cover for a three-part civil war in Greece). Some Craots sided with the Nazis. Then again, some Serbs sided with the Nazis or the Italian Fascists too. Some Serb groups spent more time fighting the Titoist partisans that the Germans. Some Croat groups openly fought on the side of the Germans.

Tito himself was (in the words of PJ O'Rourke) of mixed Croat/Slovene/son-of-a-bitch ancestery.

The Serb royalists wanted to (i) get the Germans out but also wanted mostly to (ii) defeat the communists. A significant portion of the Roylaists also wanted to create a greater Serbia (which was a problem, considering that 1/2 of their country was not Serbia).

Some Croatians wanted an independent state, and facsism seemed the best way to do it.

The communists wanted a communist state.

Frankly, as an outsider, none of the groups look particularly attractive to me, then or now. It was right to ally with Tito as he seemed more willing to fight the Germans (and was open to spliting from the Soviets).

In the 1990s I was far more isolationist than I am now, and at the time wanted the US to have nothing to do with the whole situation. Not because I thought Milosevic was right, but because I thought the Europeans should have handled it. Of course, the EU claimed "The Hour Of Europe Has Arrived" and then started complaining that Clinton was not doing anything, so I guess my hope was a forelorne one. Ex post facto, I have changed my mind, do to hearing stories from a former coworker who was in I-FOR in Bosnia, and who first job there was to oversee digging up bodies.

Anyway, I see the same thing happening now in Darfur. But that is another story.

 

The Ceaucescu case was a summary trial done by a local commander. Tried, convicted and shot in the same day. Quite similar to the Stalinist show trials of the 1930's.

 

I did not say it was better, just wondered if it was. In any event, I am glad that is not my decision to make.