Mexico VS USA August 10th - Philadelphia: Analysis Thread.

Such a weird game to watch. First half Mexico had the run of play, but didn't really do anything with it. I don't even know how to describe the goal lol. Such a freak/lucky/skillful thing to do. But with all the possession I was waiting for more balls to be slipped in and shots taken at Howard. Second half was a much improved performance by the US, and I'll give credit to Klinsmann for that. Made a world of a difference when he brought on Shea at the left wing and put Torres inside as a center mid and Donovan as a withdrawn forward. At least those three were smart enough to play one and two touch with each other to create space and unlock the Mexican defense. Was refreshing to see the US play quick passes with each other and actually create some chances. And the ref was a CONACAF ref, awful.

 

Torrado, Castro, Sinha and Salcido should just retire from the national team

Hobbit and Aguilar please don't called them up again

Size doesn't matter!! hobbit got beat bad by Agudelo or Clark with a standing header in that counterattack that could have been the winner if Torrado who also got beat badly by Rodgers didn't foul him.

Perralta vindicated himself

Gio, Pina anonymous

Ochoa did great.

 

an article came out not too long saying that many clubs will take this matter to FIFA because they feel having these sort of international matches in August, right smack in the middle of pre-season, is a bad idea and will not benefit anyone. hope it comes to fruitition.

the sooner this ridiculous 6 month ban on players like Cabrera, Jona, Fabian, and Cortez ends the better. it'd be nice to incorporate these guys onto the NT. our midfield needs major overhaul.

 

If you've just barely veered in time to avoid going over a cliff entirely, everything after that seems like great driving

 

They are sighing in relief because they now have hope that our team won't massacre them for the next 10 years.

The dominance of our young players was obvious to even the most hardcore US fans.

I'm not really impressed by any of the US players because they didn't do anything until we started to implode with the withdrawal of Sinha.

Most of the US fans think this was the gold cup team that they played against and, as such, think that we are not as good as we looked in the dismantling of their team at the gold cup final.

I think that the US team is just happy to know that their new coach is actually competent and makes good subs, etc. A lot of them are just being delusional in thinking this was the "Best Mexican team minus Chicharito"
****************************************************************

Personally the thing i hate about Mexican coaches is how they fall in love with certain players and keep calling them back.

Salcido has been playing terribly or mediocre the last several games that i've seen him. Before his attacking prowess made him untouchable at that position
but now that his speed and stamina are diminishing his faults are becoming glaring.

Salcido was one of the main culprits of our previous collapses in the past. The guy has a nasty habit of blasting 5-10 long range duds but now days he always kicks it straight to the opposing defenders feet and it starts a counter attack. He has lost the speed that used to allow him to beat his man and cross the ball so now he relies on stupid long range shots that either fly to the moon or richochet off a US defender and off to the races.

I'd like to see Torres Nilo take over immediately with Ponce backing him up. I have a faint memory of Salcido and several other defenders saying that the last world cup was their last so why don't they quit and allow younger players to take over?

I've been a major supporter of Castro and Torrado but its time to transitioning to younger players like zavala/jonas. Castro and Torrado are not getting any younger and while its still early it would be nice to see a gradual transition away from them.

Vela needs to be brought back to the squad and he needs to get serious consideration at starting in place of guardado. guardado is a great player but he is the type that needs to be rested otherwise injuries start to pop up.

Maza/Marquez are both getting old and while they might still be able to play i'd like to see Nestor Arujo and several other younger taller CB's get a shot. I'd like to see a Arujo/Moreno pairing with Maza/Marquez/etc backing them up.

I can't really say anything about Chepo right now, hopefully this was just a fluke and he drops the Zinha call ups.

The biggest problem that i see is the lack of composure being displayed by the team when they get pressed. They need to learn how to play with a lead and most importantly with patience. The bombing it forward at a non existent hold up player is pathetic. Its like they start freaking out when opposing teams pressure them and clog the midfield. You break down teams by moving the ball side to side and back and forth, the constant running causes the opposing team to waste valuable energy chasing.

Its demoralizing seeing the panic set in with all the long balls being blasted forward. Without Aldo we have no aerial game and the players need to understand that making the defense chase the ball can yield valuable rewards by fatiguing the opposing players.

 

We dont depend on CHicharito, as we all know aldo has worked and cepillo worked also. The difference i seen was having sinha in gios spot with the A team and not having a 9 to play as gio came in. After cepillo left, we played without a 9 hence not having a forward stepping on the area like a 9 should. Also, teams having pure refuerzos extranjeros on the delantera shows you that we suffer from having number 9's. But we all known that has been going on forever.

 

Think your US Thinking is flawed. Both the teams brought in were B+ teams both teams missing several key players due to injury or inavailability. US fans are happy to have a competent coach alot are relieved that the panic that insued after the Gold Cup 2-0 TO 4-2 debacle was just that a one off debacle rather than some Tidal surge some US fans and El-Tri supporters believed. Both set of fans use to much hyperbole were both guilty of it.

But the sense is much like Donovan said "We gave em too much repsect" US teams of the past didn't care a crap about who players like Chicharito were. They just played their game and got the result. Both teams brought in sub par sqauds teams were even no one team had any given advantage for every if Cheech was here we woulda done this or that response think of the waisted sailed shots in the games that Dempsey woulda slotted or drilled in especially in the second have that could busted it open when the US made their push. Same if Cheech was their for u guys. Say it again two class even teams on whole when we each play to their strengths. The issue was Bob Bradley wasn't doing that by tatics or player selection Chepo was and it showed. The result of it IMO fostered a faulted opinion that some how one team had suddenly became head and shoulders better.

Even when the US had their ten game streak of results aginst you guys, deep down US fans were like if the Mexi's ever got their tatics theyd be damn good as a whole rather than just technically good which many seem to think technically good means ur better. Only if u win. BTW Chepo is a great coach for you guys don't run him off.

 

Overall the game didn't show much. We played a good first half but were not as efficient as we have been. Chicharito and Aldo were missed. I'm pretty sure Chepo knows now that Gio has the starting spot. Sinha did okay, but Gio is much better.

Peralta made his goal, and that was pretty much it. He is a decent player, but he isn't of international caliber. With Chicharito and Aldo, and also with Cubo and Fierro coming up, I don't think he will have a chance to play. Maybe some friendlies when we have injuries or what not, but nothing more than that.

Pina as well as Gio came in when we were already disorganized, so they couldn't really make much of a difference. Besides Pina isn't a 9.

I have been one of the biggest Hobbit supporters, but after watching him last night, I can see the arguments people were making. He got beat constantly and several counter attacks were started from a ball he lost. I know it was only one game, but I think his short comings aren't something he can improve.

Salcido dissapointed me on the play that led to the nads goal. He left his man wide open. His age seems to be catching up to him.

I can't wait until Fabian, Dos Santos, and Cortez are eligible to play again.

 

Well that game was really bad.

We showed hardly anything up top.

Salcido has really been playing bad the last 2 times I have seen him. What gives? A few of the players didnt seem motivated at all this game. yea its just a friendly but still..

I think Arrellano could be good on the NT, I think he was just trying to do too much last night, to make an impression on Chepo I suppose.

Rafa is so good on corners, that header was just about in.

Gio was trying too hard, putting everything on his shoulders.

Guardis was good, but really had no support from the mid or the forward(s)

it amazes me how Barrera can dribble through like 10 guys, but when he gets the ball alone in the box, somehow he looks like he is on iceskates.
that balon filtrado that I believe zinha gave should have been a golazo.


my only complaint, Hobbit, the guy looked really lost, his height is a MAJOR disadvantage I saw him really time a few jumps for headers really poorly.

We really need a fast DM, I think Castro needs to sit.

I agree that Rafa really gets teh ball movement going, and I think we need to push up Rafa to Castro's position with Maza and Moreno behind him

anyways, Memo played great, he really needs to work on his kicking though

 

Just an observation, but it seems that at least for now, part of the evolution of the US will mean the "latinization" of the US team. Some evidence:

1. Over on ESPN they had Jorge Ramos as a guest analyst/commentator. This made Bob Levy use a few Spanish words when engaged in the analysis (he kept using the word "cambio") and it kept Alexi Lalas's anti-Mexico rhetoric in check (to some extent).
2. It was evident that Martín Vásquez was Klinsman's right hand man.
3. The sudden influx of the Latino players kept at bay by Bob Bradley.
4. In the ESPN interviews that were aired at half time, Klinsman made direct reference to Chicharito and Giovanni showing his awareness and respect for the Mexican game. Also, as a Los Angeles resident (and a foreigner himself) Klinsman must have some awareness of the importance and presence of Hispanics in this country.

 

oh one more thing.

Again my cable guide showed the game from 7-9pm on Televisa, switched it to Televisa, and what do I see, Telenovelas

I had to watch it on Univision, after this I really really hate Pablo Ramirez, all the pro USA pandering before and during the game was making me sick.

Do you guys think he really feels like that, OR do you think Univision is forcing that to get the coconuts and pochos to watch their channel instead of espn or fox soccer?

 

I think its univision thing.

 

!!!!!! Size doesn't matter!!!!!!

Hobbitses would be awesome if he played with people his same size. Hobbit to the u-12's

 

This is what Im talking about the hyperbole You know if the US won there would be some idiot US fans talking about how Mexico sucks and such and how the Gold Cup was a fluke it wasn't you guys played better and were the better team that day, Its the same when we beat you guys. what should change is the blind homerism that exist in 20% of both fanbases like ur reaction shows. No one said this was on the same stage as the Gold Cup u got that game 2 years from now. Same as when we got ours in 09 just represnet CONCACAF well. No need to make excuses for poor play when the level of talent that each respected side had playing in the game was equal, we each had alot of players missing to think of. Holden,Dempsey, Adu, Davies(still regaining form from near fatal crash), Eric Licahj, Timothy Chandler, Feilhaber, and Alitdore etc for US. These two teams are equal in talent in results the modern era records show this. There are no arguments to be made. It always comes down to coaching when these two teams play. Not talent level people on both sides are just making themselves feel good if you believe that.

With that said its all apart of the passion of the game I want Mexico to be good and to see you lose as if that makes any sense to anyone. Sorta of a way to keep the crazy homers in check and foster good discussion.

Love the passion of this rivalry but lets keep it in check btw an area you guys do beat us in is fans would luv to have ur support.

 

lol, i get this one a lot...

No alphabet squads, the teams chosen have to represent and it doesn't matter why certain players are missing.

As i said US fans are reading to much into this game. What US fans fail to see is that the reason Mexico started to implode was due to the removal of sinha.

What is interesting is that klins. is a very astute manager, he basically borrowed the pressing tactics that several other teams have shown is effective against the Mexican squad. The US pressured Castro and Torrado and forced the Mexican team to start booting it upwards because they lack composure when pressed.

Some individual posters are chicken littles or shameless boosters but the US completely outnumbers the Mexican spazzos. There are at least 5-10x as many US posters and as such US hyperbole tends to dominate the US boards while here its mostly bashing of certain players (i.e. Torrado/Castro).

My opinion is that the US dropped the whole we are going to dominate Mexico farce and took to heart the lessons El Salvador/Honduras/Guatemala have shown is effective against the Mexican team. Pressing Torrado/Castro removes our midfield link and causes us to lose composure and the players start to long ball to a non existent hold up player. This is what Makes Aldo such a Vital player, The guy excels at holding up the ball and helps to minimize the inability of Torrado and Castro to pass the ball forward consistently.

Lol, edit button is your friend, this paragraph is incoherent.

The US education system sucks for a large portion of the population. Teachers need to force people to write more often so that they get better at expressing themselves.

What I'm basically getting from you is that both squads were missing quality players and that the Coaching changes have basically instilled US fans with new found confidence. Before the US fans were all doing their best chicken little impressions "WE'RE DOOMED, DOOOOOOOMMMMMEEED and this result feels like a victory because Mexico was not dismantling the US squad like the previous meetings.

Lol, US fans have trouble admitting the obvious. Mexico smashed the US and the dominance was so overwhelming that US fans were filled with despair. It looked like the "dos a cero" chant was going to have to be retired for the next decade or so.

This game was a victory for the US team and fans. Mental advantages do exist and Mexico was crafting a huge one until Chepo's worst game in charge happened. The US team and fans were on the verge of panicking until they "won" this game. Hope is an annoying thing, i was enjoying reading the doom and gloom from the US boards

Klins. is not handicapped by the dynamics of Mexico-US rivalry and as such he has no problem admitting the obvious. Right now Mexico is much stronger and the US has to play much more intelligently if they want to win.

From what i'm seeing is that the US players are no longer just going through the motions, they realize that the coach doesn't have any favorites right now and none of them have a guaranteed spot.

The US is back to playing like an underdog and this is what make the US team dangerous.

The thing that i'm noticing is that we no longer have a coaching advantage. Chepo can no longer rely on bradley's infatuation with his son and the german guy. The US coach is ruthless in subbing out ineffective players and bringing on different players.

Its possible that the US is going to avoid our long painfully drawn out rebuilding process. If things keep going the way they are he will renew the US squad in a much more systemic manner.

Our coaches have trouble dropping players like pardo, oswaldo, etc that have declined.

Chepo has to drop Sinha, Salcido, Marquez and within the next handful of years Torrado and Castro. If he continues with the Sinha and ineffective Salcido infatuation we are going to make it easy for the US to reestablish their home dominance.

Things have changed with the dropping of Bradley the US is now rebuilding and the new coach is showing that he is competent.

 

I don't think think the level of talent is equal. I think that Mexico is clearly ahead at the moment. That doesn't mean the US can't beat Mexico, it just means that the odds are in Mexico's favor and results have shown this.

 

Remember, we want to stay away from even what most would consider "mild" personal insults. Thanks.

 

Don't worry TallTower no harm I don't percieve any personal attack from the guy. To me this is just a sports message board not a, college thesis. I do say you shouldn't make broad assumptions on ones intelligence based on how they type on a sports board while they work. I mean its not like im a logs and records clerk lol.

 

If this and If that had happened.........blah blah blah. Nats, you look stupid even trying to compare a championship final to a friendly, point and period. Reality is mexico didnt come at 100% in their style of play, if anything we played at 70% speed. While you guys are glorifying this draw so you can feel comfortable with klinnsman's decisions and appointment as head coach. Reality is mexico hasn't lost in 13 games, while we can brush this draw with out worry, the USA has to take this draw as the greatest thing to happen in 2011 for you guys which is very poignant. Your at the first step, you only did well in 20 minutes after mexico pretty much wasnt doing anything noteworthy, yes your subs helped out but the goal came from a mistake by our defense in leaving agudelo alone who then just relayed the ball to brek shea. The only thing you should be happy about is the fact that you capitalized on our mistake.

 

All the more reason you shouln't tout were more talented than you argument. If your not winning it means nothing. As a US fan we were hearing this even when we were winning most games through the last decade.

Don't agree with the homers but it encourages the spazzos as u call us. If your not winning but are quick to say your more talented, those who complain about our crazies are asking for it if you don't tamp them down. As a US fan this from first hand knowledge is what fuels the malice on our side. Right now you guys can argue that but if it goes back to how I feel it will right before the US really started taking it to you guys. I have a feeling most El Tri fans will have too much pride to admit that were even again and its a tatical battle again. We've seen it before. Lets keep things at a healthy medium now.

 

Thank you for making my point. Its the percieved snobbery by our fans by some not all of u guys that fuels it. Lets discuss the game without the hyperbole thoughtful discussion not just we are so much better lets try and minimize our oppent to the exent of mockery. However I respect your opinion and that just what it is an Opinion

 

A few things I noticed from the game.

1. Gio should be a starter.
2. Zinha, Salcido and Torrado should not be starters. Start playing their replacments in the freindlies NOW. The sooner the better, get them experience.
3. Arellano could be an impact sub.
4. Where the eff is Vela? Dude always contributes when he's on the team.