Match 51 (R16) - Germany v England - Post-Match Thread [R]

And now the keeper admits he fooled the officials...

Here's the relevant post, before I get banned from BigSoccer for good.

What do you expect? The keeper to admit the ball went in? Do you think James would have done the same? Of course not!

throw the ball into the net to make it a clear goal... geeez, people...

Honestly?
If that would be CL of course not. You get paid and there is much money involved. So you would get your butt kicked by coach and manager...
But in a game for the national team? Why not? You are representing your country. Don`t know how you could do it better as with that kind of fair play...

Call me a football romancer but I think that would be great! ^^


Btw as a german I don`t see this squad going to the final. They achived more than I expected and I am very interested how they develope for 2014.
If they would make the third place that would be magnificent!

Germany most likely saw that it was a goal at half time, should they have let England score to start the second half?

As a neutral fan I would have liked to of seen the game played if 2-2 at halftime. It would of been a big gesture towards fair play.

Any instances of this in modern sport? The one I can think of is Ullrich waiting for Armstrong in the tour de france.

Bad calls happen. You have to have a team good enough to make it through th WC to deal with them. Fouls are not called, phantom fouls are called, divers are everywhere when they somuch as smell a PK, handballs don't get called, and non0intentional handballs get flagged for intentional handballs. etc, etc.

Did England have to deal with a completely BS refere in their group matches that carded half their team?

Nope. Should they all spit on the ref to get a yellow card like all the Germans had to make it "fair"?

It's all part pf the reason winning WCs is so hard. There is some element of luck always in play.

You seriously want Germany to just give England a goal when England is busy trying to dive in/around the penalty area to get a cheated goal? Are you new to soccer?

Total dominance by the Germans, that counterattack is frightening especially when it is Ozil that is given the space. Would have been more interesting if it was 2-2 at 40th minute but poor vision by the linesmen. I might be wrong but I think Lampard should have celebrated that goal, instead he looked at the ref for verification but that type of situation can go either way so he should have gathered his teammates and celebrated as quick as possible, maybe the ref would have given the benefit of the doubt and award the goal.

Uhh, how was the 2002 so bad? They had one of the greatest midfielders of the last 30 years, one of the greatest GKs of the last 30 years, one of the best strikers in 30 years for germany.

Yeah. Two cheaters high on drugs are a great example of fair play!

Regarding the game: On offense, England was only dangerous in the area about 15 meters outside the penalty box, when they had space and time there. That is precisely why it didn't work out for them, because except for right after the 1:2, the German midfield did a good job at controlling this space. Neither was England able to build up a convincing game from the back, nor were there able to create danger in the box, except for set pieces.

In the end, that's just not enough at this level. And looking at the group-stage games, the only possible conclusion is, that England is not good enough. They were not able to score enough against USA and Slowenia, by which way they could have avoided Germany so early. They would have most likely beat Ghana.

The achievement of the German team is, that they made the game really fast on offence, even before they scored first and before they could counter-attack. This is an achievement, because on defence, i think the English are better than on offence, and after the matches against Serbia and Ghana i wasn't sure at all they could do this. Although we still had weaknesses on defence and mental issues after conceding the goal, this makes me very optimistic.

England really needs a fresh beginning and most of all needs to get rid of the mindset that they will win anything because of the EPL. This thinking obviously is getting them nowhere. Best of luck for that.

I guess you missed Milner's cross for Lampard in the box in the first half which the German keeper just got a hand to?

I guess you missed Gerrard's shot inside the box which again the German keeper just got a hand to?

Those two chances were every bit as close as the two chances the Germans didn't score (Germany had about 6 real chances in all and scored 4 of them).

so you're saying that because the culture of the game is that unsporting behaviour is the standard that no one *should* do something to change it? You're fine with the fair play standard that stops on the field at returning possession after an injury stoppage?

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http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/worldwideprograms/fifacampaigns/fairplay/code.html

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Maybe teams would quit diving and appealing for fouls that didn't happen if they knew that a rightly earned goal would not be missed and if it was it would be corrected. A gesture like that could change the on field player fair play standard to correct situations like this.

A bright spot in a sport marred by unsporting behaviour.

Best post in this thread. Too many people don't understand football and don't understand that goals DO change games. I know it's a cliche but it's a fact. They do.

If England had gone into half time at 2-2 imagine the boost and confidence it would have given them for the second half? Conversely imagine the disappointment the Germans would have felt had they squandered a 2 goal lead?

You're referenceto the 2005 Champions League final is a very pertinent one.

The Lampard goal wasn't disallowed when it was 3-1 or 4-1 so people saying it didn't matter in the end aren't looking at it properly. It was disallowed when it was 2-1 and it would have squared the game up.

Those who say that the wrongly disallowed goal didn't matter are basically saying they think Germany deserved to beat England and that the better side won. Otherwise, it is plainly obvious that no one knows what would happened and how the game would have proceeded if the score was 2:2 at halftime.

Oh yes, Germany is going to save the sport. Haha. Give me a break. And hand over a goal to a team from a country that for the better part of a century claimed a goal went in when anyone with fucntioning eyeballs knows did not. Not likely.

As you should know we have a saying in the states: don't hate the player, hate the game.

Wow, that yahoo article is horrible. Neuer never said he clearly saw that the ball was in and that he planned to fool the referee.

He said that he didn't really see it (how could he, happened so fast and he was before the ball) but felt it could have been in and was afraid a goal could be given.
Then he quickly brought the ball back into play to give the ref less time to think about it as refs are more reluctant to stop the game and decide for goal when the teams are already playing. He just gambled.
That's just smart. He never told the ref it wasn't in as Luis Fabiano did or cheated.
The error was made by the linesman and the refree who had to see it or who had to stop the game.

Few observations:

To me it seemed like people were getting used to the Jabulane ball. The more advanced stages they reach, the more they up their game and the better the players seem to strike the ball. In many sports like golf or tennis, more advanced equipment is normally harder to master. Their sweet spots are smaller, but far more sweet if you can strike them. Their sweet spots can only be met by advance players or people used to the equipment. To me it seems like top players like Lampard(struck this ball sweetly more than once), Messi and many of the German players don't have a problem hitting great shots with this ball because they seem to be advanced enough. With time, more players will strike this advanced ball better.

Defence of England:
With one of Germany's counter attacks, one of the defending players made no attempt in stopping the run of one of the German players. He just utterly gave up and let the German player tap the ball in. With mere effort, that goal could have been stopped, even if you were an amateur player. But giving up like that player did, was unacceptable for me....Think Upson was the one that was supposed to stop that goal....

Well done Germany. Much the better team deserved to win 4-1 was about right well maybe 5-2.

442 didn't work as i knew it wouldn't although im surprised the Germans couldn't dominate the game with an extra man. Possibly going to struggle against the Argies who are much better at keeping the ball then we are.

I agree with everything you said except when you say we expect to win everything because of the EPL. Fallacy

I have to critisize Capello's coaching and selection.

He made some substitutions, but way too late to change a 3-1 lead....
Players like Bent, Ashley Young and Owen were needed in the team but wasn't even in the squad. And even though Capello selected someone like Wright Phillips, he would use him too late. I don't understand the selection of Milner over Young. I was also never a fan of playing both Lampard and Gerhard at the same time, even though they are both great. Capello seemed to have made the same mistake as South Africa, which at times went with a slower paced approach, wich is not playing to their strengths. Slower games doesn't suit everyone, and it certainly is not England's strength.

Dominance? I know the german game was to quickly counter attack and so the game went exactly as they wanted it but come on thats not dominating a game.

Lampard did celebrate the goal but i know what you mean they wanted confirmation first. Problem for england seems to be when we celebrate what we feel are legitimate goals the ref dissallows them and allows the other team to restart the game so half our players are celebrating. I.e. The two sol campbel goals. Argentina 1998 and Portugal 2004. Im not going to debate those two goals but on both occasions the ref didn't allow our team to firstly understand that it wasn't a goal and then allow them to get back in position. I know quick free kicks are allowed and usually help the pace of the game but surely when a teams celebrating you have to stop play to tell them it isn't a goal. I think its just refs being afraid of getting abuse.

Mangani, the point is, you would have needed to create more chances like that. I don't understand, that England for the whole tournament made so little use of it's wings. They German vulnerability was Mertesacker, and - in my opinion - Boateng, so you need to get the ball on the right wing and from there in the center. I didn't see the English pursue that hard enough in any of their games, i think this would have won them the US-match as well. I think they tried it way to much through the middle of the field, and many on this forum predicted, that they would have a hard time in central midfield against the Germans.

The goal - of course it matters. I am in favour of goal-line technology, but until then and even then one thing is for sure in football: You can only win the game that is taking place, it's futile discussing the game that could have been.