Match 29: Brazil Cote x d'Ivoire Post Game

Discussion in 'GROUP G: Brazil, North Korea, Ivory Coast, Portuga' started by Ombak, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. Dr. Know

    Dr. Know Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Location:
    Macondo
    Were you all Brazilians? That might have something to do with it ;).

    First one maybe wasn't blatant but the second one was and he gained an advantage on the defender because of his handball.

    That's why it's weird that nobody said anything. Defenders tend to complain about even minor things. 2 handballs inside the area and not one said anything? Very strange. But that's just me.


  2. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    That's a blatant exaggeration. He deserved the second yellow for two reasons: one for being stupid enough to get involved in all that late mess that CIV instigated (good for them, they got what they wanted out of it, they got under someone's skin), two for lifting his arm up slightly in a motion that indicated he might have seen the guy coming instead of stepping away from everything.

    To throw an elbow though requires force and there was no such motion in that play.

    Chances are he'll sit the one game (a silver lining is that since we play Friday/Monday or Friday/Tuesday he isn't getting excessive rest but won't play two games on almost no rest) since that's automatic and Keita will be fined as Rivaldo was in 2002.

    At least one defender and the keeper lifted their hands to call the ref's attention to the second handball.
  3. thejuggernaut

    thejuggernaut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Location:
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Country:
    United States
    All this talk of "lack of intention" somehow justifying the most pathetic missed call i've seen at this world cup is, in itself... pathetic.
  4. GRBomber

    GRBomber Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Location:
    Brasília - Brazil
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Country:
    Brazil
    look at the second one, the "blatant"

    [​IMG]

    It's almost legal, so it's understandable that on the run of play people miss it.
    I'm not saying the play was valid, just that it was hard to call.

    Much harder than the african Kung Fu, for example :D


  5. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    Intention has no part in a handball call anyways, what matters is whether the hand was deliberately placed in that position.
  6. Dr. Know

    Dr. Know Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Location:
    Macondo
    It's also easy to see a ref touching his arm then laughing when speaking to the player who just handled the ball twice and thinking there is something funny. I clearly wasn't the only one who that was was very very weird so it's not like I'm alone in what I say.

    Disagree but thats mostly down to opinion. To me Elano's goal came after the worst defending I've seen so far.

    I give credit when it's due like during most of the second part of the CONMEBOL qualifiers and Brazil looked very good. I've also said that this defense is probably the best I've ever seen from Brazil. And Fabiano's first goal has been one of the best of the cup so far.

    That said I don't agree that Brazil played very well but they were clearly better and deserved the result.
  7. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    Elano's defender was poor on the play but it was a good offensive play when Brazil finally had space to play with. Overall CIV were very defensive relative to the posture Brazil expected and our goals and the one or two significant chances we had that didn't go in came from very solid buildups. There were no bad defensive giveaways and the breakthroughs were credits to Brazil's passing, not results of CIV being lazy or losing their mark.

    As for the ref talking to Fabiano, people are welcome to think what they want, but the notion that it's somehow suspicious is silly when there are more reasonable explanations. Intelligent people can apply Occam's Razor to science and philosophy, why not apply it here too? The ref may have suspected Luis Fabiano got away with something and asked him about it. There you go. The ref can't whistle the play dead because there's a possibility Luis Fabiano used his arm, in order to do that he actually has to see it.
  8. Dr. Know

    Dr. Know Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Location:
    Macondo
    The first goal came after a bad defense mistackle which gave Kaka the chance to make the short pass, the second goal had 2 handballs and it was also bad defending by the CB's, the third goal caugh the defender sleeping inside the area for whatever reason while Elan easily slipped by him.

    Kaka did well but it doesn't take away from the fact that they were errors.

    Maybe because it's down to something you don't see everyday. What happened was a mistake by the ref, when that happens you generallly don't seem him laughing right afterwards when talking to the player that was involved in the questionable call. There's a reason people look at it suspicious.
  9. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
  10. celito

    celito Member+

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    You guys crying about the diving by Brasil are really exaggerating. I will be watching the game again, but I think I saw 2 dives and none were in the box. In the last 20 minutes IC were really reckless with their tackles repeatedly coming studs up on many 50/50 situations. And if a player does that, I am glad our players try to milk the foul a little more if they have to.
  11. AuriVerde

    AuriVerde Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Location:
    Fortaleza-CE,Brasil
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I didn't see many dives as 'some' are saying here.What I did saw were very hard/dirty fouls by IC players.
  12. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    Avoid talking directly to other posters especially in a baiting tone. Talk about the game. Anything below this post receives a warning.
  13. AuriVerde

    AuriVerde Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Location:
    Fortaleza-CE,Brasil
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Gotta rep you for that. ;)
  14. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    I will make one post before retiring for the evening.

    Some of you here and in other forums have stated about the death of "jogo bonito." Well, if those of you who are harping about this so-called fact were paying any attention since Dunga took over the Brazilian national team virtually FOUR YEARS AGO after Germany 2006, you would have long known that this coach does not prioritize flashy or swashbuckling play. His goal is to win and to have a sturdy defense.

    Furthermore, any of you who had any knowledge about Dunga's background as a defensive midfielder and his role in the 1994 Brazilian World Cup title team would not be surprised that his philosophy has been one of building a team starting from the defense.

    The process was painful and cumbersome at times, but it worked - look at all the titles we won under him and at the teams we beat.

    Go decry the death of "jogo bonito" all you want - there are plenty of us Brazilians who like the team the way Dunga has it playing, not only because it's only lose FIVE times since he took over, but because of the results - and also because on occasion we will have flashes of brilliance.

    Brazil was BRILLIANT today - much better than against North Korea. The Ivory Coast is a physically stronger and more talented team, and yet we did our vintage Dunga-style thing today, solid in defense and reliable in possession. I was never alarmed because the team recovered the football easily almost every time. What's wrong with proper ballhandling and keeping the ball away from the opponent? You can't win if you don't have the football and we had it aplenty during 90 minutes.

    The goal is to win - especially in a short competition like the World Cup, and we've won 2 of our games thus far.
    1 person likes this.
  15. celito

    celito Member+

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    You don't consider the defense on Higuain's 3rd goal poor ? 4 players collapse on Messi leaving Aguero completely open on the left and then Higuain is completely unmarked in the box ? Nice passes indeed ... but horrible defending.
  16. celito

    celito Member+

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    I don't get what everyone is debating. Everyone agrees that it was a handball. The 2nd one was specially bad. The ref should have caught it although I think we can all agree these calls get missed from time to time.

    The ref talking to Fabiano after the goal was strange although I don't think there is any foul play involved. He may have realized there might have been a hand and it was stupid of him to even ask Fabiano. What does the ref expect him to say ?
  17. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    One article I looked over since I last posted indicated the ref may have seen it on the big screen in the stadium (even though that's not supposed to happen).
  18. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Location:
    Memphis
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Country:
    United States
    As long as it doesn't effect his call(s)...a good ref will ignore that.
  19. Wolfie65

    Wolfie65 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Not exactly one of Brazil's shining moments, but a win's a win.....
    What's up with this Kaka guy?
    He sure is pretty, but also seems to be a little bit of a prick.
    Handball or no handball.....I'd say the first time - when the ball hits Fabiano's elbow from above - was accidental, the second (shoulder)....dunno.
    Is a shoulder considered a 'hand'?
  20. GRBomber

    GRBomber Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Location:
    Brasília - Brazil
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Country:
    Brazil
    The shoulder is legal, but he also used his arm a little.
    See how hard it was for the ref? Everybody sees something different.
  21. celito

    celito Member+

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    I thought replays were not shown in the field since 2002.
  22. raviept

    raviept Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Location:
    Braga
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Country:
    Portugal
    I've seen the replay today, and i'm not convinced that this was a handball. It seemed to me that he used it's shoulder, but it's possible that Fabiano touched slightly with his arm. A tough decision for the referee and an acceptable one.
  23. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Location:
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    Argentina
    you might be not convience, but Fabiano himself already admitted
    this wasnt shoulder

    [​IMG]
  24. raviept

    raviept Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Location:
    Braga
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Country:
    Portugal
    Ok. I haven't seen any clarifying image until now. But truly demanding from a referee to see a handball like that isn't reasonable, in my opinion. Thats why i think his decision wasn't terrible. I've seen the replay on television and that didn't clarify me.
  25. Amir777

    Amir777 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    You are both crazy.

    the brasil hater : brasil wil win the world cup and anyone who really understands about soccer can see the danger of their apparently "bad game"

    to the messi hater: you are just plain silly. Messi is the greatest player in the world. I am a brasilian before you waste people's time claiming otherwise, and anyone who loves soccer, loves to watch the man play. As a brasilian, i rather never win another world cup if that meant another messi would be born every other day in argentina. it is a pleasure to watch the man play.

Share This Page