I don't mean to speak for Bajoro or anybody else on this point, but I wonder if he actually means the stadium experience of soccer is about the witnessing of or the participation in a public spectacle of passion. That, I think, is different from more traditional American sporting experiences. Even at the stadium, most of the time American sports fans are sort of passive. There are some notable exceptions, but as a general rule I think that's the case. They sit down. They shut up. They watch the game. If something good happens they cheer. That's about it. Whatever they feel internally, the expression of passion in the stands tends to be subdued. Again, there are exceptions, but as a general rule I think that's all true. Soccer doesn't work that way. And the international experience of soccer is not classically that way. The passion associated with soccer has always had the character of a public spectacle -- for better and worse. (And sometimes there's a clash of cultures at MLS games. How many times have the more vocal supporters been told by others in the stadium to sit down and shut up? I'm sure we all have stories.) Now, I do think the guys running Seattle knew this, and I think that's one reason why they had that big scarf promotion with the first game of the season. The scarf was your ticket, IIRC. Well, that was brilliant because you already had the core of supporters from the USL days to start things off but because everyone had a scarf, everyone could join in -- even if it was just waiving it around in the air. That first game showed everyone in attendance how Sounders games could be the sort of spectacle of passion that is pretty rare in the American sporting scene and that the old hard-core soccer fans have for years been yearning. And it was also a shot over the bow of the more staid American fans: Sounders games aren't what you're used to (but if you want to join in, here's how).
Soccer is more Global sport, usually soccer fans follow more than one league. My time with military bases in met some people ( born in USA and mainly from Southern towns and small cities ) care less for MLS, yet they watch EPL, have time Euro Cup, UEFA Champions League and La Liga. Cubans and Nicaraguans ( non-tradition soccer nation ) in South Florida, I played soccer with these people, they never watch MLS game, watch Euro Cup, Libartabores, La Liga and Serie A, the majority didn't know Fusion exist. Some who went maybe one Funsion game didn't quality of soccer of MLS..."all violence and no magic" In Los Angeles, mexican league has way higher rating than any MLS team. also, I played soccer in Glendale and North Hollywood area no one there ( typical white american and euro-trash ) care for MLS.
Yawn. Nothing new here. We had the same discussions when the league was being founded in the mid-90s. However, the discussions weren't on a blog or a forum, but at a bar or a team event. How do you market a new league? Well, there wasn't a bunch of adults at that time craving for a new professional soccer league with players who weren't of the caliber of other foreign leagues. The low hanging fruit was young soccer families learning the game. It made sense and was the right decision. Unfortunately, it's not a sustainable model. The parents don't really have the passion and their kids start growing up. They lose interest and stop going to the games. However, as the league is know 15 years old, we have young adults who have grown up with the league and have a passion for the game. So, I agree the market needs to change to focus on adults and away from families. However, you can and still need to do both for another 10-20 years. There isn't enough passionate young adults who will buy season tickets and continue to attend games. Plus, you want the kids to see pro soccer. Plus, I don't think MLS has to turn into the same environment as other foreign leagues which are all men's clubs. We can be progressive and invite women and children. By the way, the number one market rule is to put a good product on the field. I'm 100% certain that if Seattle had put out a crap product and repeated for a couple of years that they would start to lose season ticket holders. Same for Houston if they hadn't been given a top caliber team. If you are going to market to adults, you better have a good product to view. There is not enough beer on this earth to make me watch the Clash year after year.
I disagree, I grew-up Uruguay and went to visit sibbling countries ( Brazil and Argentina ), where families go to games to do chants and curse-out visitting clubs, usually the club is symbol of social-class and the hood. Even my time Italy, its similiar thing.
To a certain extent that is true..However, I play pickup games in the South Bay Area with Romainians, Russians, English, Italian, Belgium, French, Chinese, Irish, Mexican, El Salvadorian, etc. Most of them are fans of teams from back "home" or European teams. However, almost all of them have attended a Quakes game this year and follow the team. Ten or fifeen years ago, it wasn't the case. Things have changed. People do both. They still follow their old teams, but they also support the local professional team.
Cool! I don't have first had experience with European or South American leagues. Just form TV and talking with others. Still, I don't think your comments change my opinion which is MLS needs to market to both adults and families. The main market focus should be changing from families to adults as opposed to tha past 15 years where most of the focus has been on families.
^^^Well like any club, there is a quiet side, for families/ older people, and then there are the crazy sides like you see in south america where its just spots where you can stand, not sit, that is away frmo the families, sometimes having their whole side, thats where the tv cameras are pointed at. I think MLS should try to do something like that with all teams, if they have strong enough support, like DC United, or any teams with Ultras, barra bravas, etc.
In South America and Europew both adults take their families, but its not PG. especially in Argentina....where you have curse like Sailor
That's a fair question. (1) But, why does it have to be different? (2) Well, the NFL is different. NFL football has so much commercial support, and so much vested interest from the media, it doesn't need the same level of passion that soccer needs in the USA. NFL is entertainment -- cheerleaders, promotions, time-outs with dance routines, food being delivered to your seat -- all stuff that distracts from the game itself. (Or adds to the game, depending on your POV.) NFL is full of traditional marketing, powered by huge dollars, that MLS can't afford. We need a higher level of passion from the fans to succeed. (3) MLS has in the past done things to rob the passion, like giving teams silly names and uniforms; playing in inappropriate venues; running teams like commodity commercial products rather than clubs that include the social implications of belonging to a club; and arcane bylaws that seemed to give certain franchises mysterious advantages. Look, there's no easy answers. Marketing MLS is a tough job. I think they've done a fairly good job given their challenges. (4) The main thing that Seattle has done, I think, is to make the fans feel like family. That should be the focus of marketing in MLS -- build our "tribes" as they say in marketing. How do you do that? Again, it's not easy. But a local MLS franchise ought to provide an outlet where all segments of the soccer population can come to celebrate soccer. When you go to an MLS game, the message ought to be -- "We're all proud to be part of the soccer community, here locally, across the US and around the world." If I ran an MLS franchise, I would want to reach out to all segments of the soccer community and say -- "We are here to serve the soccer community. Whether you are a soccer family, an immigrant playing club soccer, kids playing school soccer, or adults who love international soccer. You have a stake and a voice." And then I would design my operations and marketing program around that mission. Sorry for carrying on.
MLS has marketed to adults. DC United marketed to me as an adult male by working with the supporter's groups to offer discounted pricing and other perks. But rarely is credit given for those things because people are too busy blaming the league for trying to get more than one segment of the potential audience at the same time.
I for one don't 'blame the league.' I think they deserve a lot of credit. But you can't move forward if you don't analyze shortcomings, identify mistakes and make corrections. The MLS "umbrella brand", with the introduction of new "sub-brands" such as new teams and new competitions, has a chance to start over fresh every so often to see what new approaches work.
I'm not saying you shouldn't analyze shortcomings. I give the team and the league a ton of credit and a ton of blame. But I give a certain segment of fans a lot of blame for perpetuating myths, which is where my offhanded comment was aimed. MLS has marketed to adults, very well at times. Those successes are at times diminished by the cackle of critics who will never be satisfied and only want to point to the things that didn't go well. The marketing to youths and families has not been a total cluster, but you'd never know that from some of the "analysis" here.
Just like any true company, like say verizon, they have commercials that appeal to each ethnicity/ group. MLS needs to have commercials running that have a more 'urban' feel to run on BET, they have hispanic ones running on the spanish channels, they need some for young people, that arent cheezy but may actually entice young people to go to. Etc. they need to expand how the market/ get the job done getting the fans to watch their games.
Peter Wilt says "Hi". Actually, chicago did all of those things (incl "adult" fan support)and in 98 still couldn't get 30k a year. The fact is, 10 years makes a lot of difference......wit's a completely different marketplace. More people watch soccer, european or international via satellite or the inter than back then.
Quakes did the same thing when Johnny Moore was GM. It was starting to work. Unfortunately, the team moved for different reasons...Bajoro should know...He used to be a Quakes fan... The key comment you made is that the market has changed a lot in the past 10-15 years. FSC, ESPN, and Gol TV have helped with getting soccer available to the masses.
Seems obvious to me that DC United is the exception that proves what most people on this thread have been arguing. You know as well as I do that Payne did not follow the model of the rest of the league when setting up DC United. And I suspect you've been to enough MLS games across the league to know that the experiences elsewhere can be very different. From the start United was branded well for adults, the team embraced the supporters groups and so on. United's problems today are all related to the product on the field and the stadium issue, and not to the kind of marketing issues we're discussing here. I actually think you're going a bit overboard here. Nobody is saying not to market to kids. A lot of people are actually defending the early decision to market to kids and families, even if at the same time they point out some of the trade-offs. That was my intention, anyway. Generally what I'm seeing people say here is that marketing to kids and families in itself may get some butts in the seats but it is not an effective way to grow the league. I think that is correct. To do that you need to beef up the marketing to adults. There are basic things that MLS teams can do like better branding (which after years of renaming is arguably already accomplished with one or two exceptions), treating supporters groups not as hooligans but as partners, and Bajoro's thing about reaching out to the larger soccer community (I've sometimes thought SUM should set up MLS branded, but internationally focused soccer pubs in selected cities: a cross between Three Lions Pub and ESPN Zone). But beyond that sort of reaching out and facilitating I come back to Bajoro's point about how much things have changed from 1996. If your team has done the basics, then it's really not about MLS marketing itself to adults any longer: it's about supporters marketing the team to other adults.
sometimes I think marketing is overrated. if people like going to games, they will go. people often evangelize and spread the gospel among themselves. if the game experience sucks, people won't go.
I think you are talking about advertising. Marketing is how the MLS displays itself to the public. Advertising is part of marketing but marketing also includes how a front office wants to plan gameday activities for example which is why the experience might suck.
I find it hard to talk about marketing in any detail on this forum. (And yet, I do so much of it...) One, it's a huge area whose boundaries are becoming increasingly blurred. There's just too much to be covered in a post or two. If you simplify it to fit the medium, it seems oversimplified. Two, once you get into the detail, you'll probably bore most people to death. Three, marketing is pervasive in modern society and everyone has marketing experiences and a legitimate point of view. So an "expert" point of view isn't necessarily more valid than a casual point of view. Yet, even though it's hard to make concrete suggestions backed up by any kind of proof, marketing feels like such an important part of MLS because all of us here are so emotionally vested in soccer's success in this country. * * * I think in general, "marketing to adults" is a broad way of talking about the DCU approach, as Knave said, and more recently the TFC and Sounders approach. The positioning has less to do with the audience's race, nationality or gender, and more to do with the team and league providing an authentic soccer experience -- that anyone who likes soccer or sports in general can appreciate. I think it's great to create marketing programs for youth soccer, Latinos, Euros, anyone... but you shouldn't create an atmosphere that seems to cater to one segment over the others. I would guess this is a problem that MLS faces, that most established leagues around the world don't. The challenge is to create an atmosphere that's welcoming and relevant to American natives, Latinos, youth soccer families, young adults and anyone else. As Hall of Fame adverting art director Jerry Andelin used to say: If it were easy, anyone could do it.