Marco van Basten - his years at Ajax

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by PuckVanHeel, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I found a source with all his goals for Ajax, including his goals for the national team and european goals. I thought this is maybe interesting to share because most foreigners tend to think that his senior career started at AC Milan. Goals scored in the cup aren't included though so I did an attempt for myself, which I will explain in detail later on. I will also write brief profiles for each season and include some videos as well - I personally have some DVDs with highlights in my collection but I won't upload these for copyright related issues. His stats for Milan can be found elsewhere on the internet (here).

    Marco van Basten has as distinctive honor that nobody else can claim that he delivered a prize to his home country; the first and to date only prize of the Netherlands was won in euro88. And it wasn't solely for his goals, it was also because other Dutch stars didn't deliver, while he did. An analysis in a biography showed that he did only 2 bad things with a ball during the semi-final match against West-Germany. About 5 contacts could be classified as 'neutral' and ~35 contacts with the ball were good. Among those 35 contacts was, of course, that single famous late winner.

    It is predominantly for this distinctive reason that he is a viable contender for the spot of second best Dutch footballer of all-time, together with Faas Wilkes, Abe Lenstra and Willem van Hanegem.
    However, he had already before his exploits at euro88 nicknames as 'the swan of Utrecht' and 'the Nureyev of football' to signify his grace. Nevertheless, his distinctive performances let him stand out above other graceful persons like Dennis Bergkamp who, apart from his first two tournaments, often disappeared in dismal knock-out stage defeats. Van Basten also played very well, maybe even smarter, in euro92. The failure of World Cup 1990 is often not attributed to him, for the reason that it was he who already warned three months before kick-off for a total catastrophe and implosion of the squad. This was followed with a public humiliation by 'supervisor' Rinus Michels, which sealed the fate of this team already before the journey took place.
     
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This is the longest part of the profile (all others are a bit shorter ;) )

    Marco van Basten was born on 31 October 1964 in Utrecht as 'Marcel van Basten'. Because some family members, especially his grandma, had difficulties in the pronunciation of this French name, it was soon changed to 'Marco'.

    The story goes that he was already kicking to a little ball when he had the age of two. His father Joop van Basten had been a semi-professional footballer and was now an appreciated football-trainer in the amateur-scene of Utrecht. Joop van Basten saw the talent of his son when he was about the age of four. He saw his son making all kind of different solo-runs against kids who were one or two years older than him.

    Hence, as soon as Van Basten had the legitimate age of six, he was taken by his father to the local football club EDO. He switched over to the more renowned amateur-club UVV after a few weeks. He would go on to play football for (almost) the rest of his youth career at this club. UVV was apart from a renowned club also a quite pleasant club so the young Van Basten kept hanging around before and after the regular training.

    His fame was noticed for first time by a professional club at the age of 11. His UVV trainers began to notice that he was week in, week out standing above his peers of the same age, and even older.
    The then youth trainer of Feyenoord Leo Beenhakker was the first of the professional clubs to notice him. Beenhakker tried to transfer him to Rotterdam but Joop van Basten declined: too far away and too detrimental for a stable development.

    His father was harsh but had arguably an important role, although he is the first to say that his son had also reached the same greatness without him. His father stimulated him to make notes of his game, and football matches on television weren't always watched for fun but for educative purposes as well. The other sons in the family didn't get the same attention as a result of this fanatic attention for the slightest detail. And his father was persistent in pointing to the best position of his son: the centre-forward position and not the 'number 10' spot.

    He was eventually selected for the under 16 national team. The local professional club FC Utrecht tried to lure him, and he participated in trainings as well, but it was never concluded into a contract.

    He played his last season in Utrecht as player of Elinkwijk, who did play in inter-regional competitions as opposed to his former club UVV. It was here where he had his first long-term injury at 15 years old.

    He was selected for the under 18 national team in 1980 and from this on his career was on fast track: he was invited for a test at PSV Eindhoven and also Feyenoord did another attempt. FC Utrecht was no option: too small and if he failed at a bigger club he could always go on to play for Utrecht while the opposite route was less likely.

    Ajax was located in the proximity of Utrecht and it still had the greatest status but the way he landed in Amsterdam was quite peculiar.
    Head of the youth department Aad de Mos was searching in the database until his eye fell on a not entirely up to date file: other youth players had a more up to date and more extensive file but this one caught his attention because it was a striker. "You have many talented midfielders but good strikers are of a rare breed", he explains.

    Van Basten got contracted but his contract reflected his status: Edwin Godee, from Utrecht, had a youth contract of 10000 Dutch guilders a year. Gerald Vanenburg, also from Utrecht, had a youth contract of 25000 Dutch guilders a year. Van Basten had a contract of 5000 Dutch guilders a year.

    So, the season 1981/1982 became his first season at the revered club from Amsterdam. He played his matches for the first youth team but was in the second half of the season transfered to the second team of Ajax, until he made his debut on 3 april 1982.
    Interesting to note is the first mention of the name Van Basten in the national press: an issue of 'Voetbal International' of september 1981. The youth team of Holland plays an international game against Belgium. Van Basten is one of the two who is marked as a 'great talent', the other one is Jean Marc Bosman of Belgium.

    As indicated, he made his debut on 3 april 1982, two months after his debut for the second team of Ajax. He came on as a substitute for another famous footballer: Johan Cruijff. He scored immediately his first goal, but because Van Basten opted to play at the youth tournament of Toulon for the national team, this remained his only appearance of the season.


    [FONT=&quot]1981/1982[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]26. 03/03/1982 Ajax – NEC 5:0 [3:0, 67.] (46. Cruijff>)[/FONT]

    Explanation: Round 26. Date, match, end result, goal, minute, substitution (minute)

    Arrow after the name designates that Van Basten was subbed in; arrow before the name designates that he was subbed out.
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    1982/1983

    Van Basten was officially promoted to the first team at the start of the 1982/1983 season. But with striker Wim Kieft around, the European topscorer of 1981/1982, and with Ajax playing in the traditional 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 formation, there weren't much opportunities for him to make his mark. Furthermore, the presence of the established Johan Cruijff, Jesper Olsen, Søren Lerby, Dick Schoenaker and also the rise of Gerald Vanenburg (who played one of his best seasons in a Ajax shirt) meant that opportunities for the midfield and wing positions were scarce.
    Ajax was careful with Van Basten because he wasn't physically matured. But the fact that Wim Kieft had an Golden Boot on his résumé made Kieft his market value more expensive. It wasn't an option for manager Aad de Mos to play a two striker system as default formation. Kieft's contract of 60000 Dutch guilders a year wasn't tenable anymore and the board doubted whether his contract had to be upgraded. The promising presence of Van Basten tilted this question to a 'no'.
    It was a tough season for him where he learned the laws of professional football. Famous is the clash on a training with Cruijff where Van Basten walked away in tears. Despite this, Cruijff saw his talent and spent the most of his scarce outward attention to the young striker, to whom he learned many technical, tactical and mental lessons.
    The high point of the season was the 1983 youth World Cup. Dutch youth teams had until that date disappointed but suddenly there was a generation that did qualify for the most important youth tournament. Eventually, it wasn't Vanenburg or Van Basten who stood out in the heat, it was the now forgotten Mario Been. On the other hand, coach Kees Rijvers declared afterwards that Van Basten had been the most dangerous attacker of Holland.
    The Netherlands reached the quarter-final where they played against Argentina at 42 degree Celsius, the Dutch were already exhausted before kick-off. Van Basten did score the first goal against the Argentinians but Holland accumulated three red cards when the frustrations about the harsh Argentinian tackles rose. Holland was eliminated and the critical verdict of coach Kees Rijvers about Van Basten was clear: "He can perform so much better".

    [FONT=&quot]1982/1983[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]2. 25/08/1982 FC Groningen – Ajax 2:1 (71. Van Veen>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]5. 07/09/1982 Excelsior – Ajax 0:3 (73. Van ‘t Schip>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]6. 12/09/1982 Ajax – Sparta 1:1 (77. >Silooy)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]7. 25/09/1982 Ajax – NEC 5:0 (67. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]>Silooy)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]8. 02/10/1982 Twente – Ajax 1:2 [0:1, 24.] (77. >Van `t Schip)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]9. 09/10/1982 PSV – Ajax 4:0 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]13. 06/11/1982 Willem II – Ajax 0:3 (80. Molenaar>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]14. 21/11/1982 Ajax – FC Utrecht 3:1 [3:1, 80.] (69. Kieft>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]18. 15/01/1983 Go Ahead – Ajax 0:2 (80. Schoenaker>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]20. 30/02/1983 Ajax – Haarlem 6:1 [3:0, 41.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]21. 05/02/1983 NAC – Ajax 0:2 [0:2, 88.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]22. 20/02/1983 Ajax – Excelsior 2:1 [1:0, 38. 2:0, 74.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]23. 27/02/1983 Sparta – Ajax 1:1 (29. >Van ‘t Schip)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]25. 13/03/1983 NEC – Ajax 0:4 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]26. 20/03/1983 Ajax – FC Twente 5:0 [3:0, 44.] (46. >Van `t Schip)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]27. 27/03/1983 PEC Zwolle – Ajax 1:2 (68. Van Veen>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]28. 04/04/1983 Ajax – Roda JC 3:1 (76. >Vanenburg)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]30. 17/04/1983 Ajax – Willem II 8:2 [3:0, 54.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]32. 01/05/1983 Ajax – Feyenoord 3:3 (75. Molenaar>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33. 07/05/1983 Helmond Sport – Ajax 1:4 [0:1, 51.] (63. >Van `t Schip)[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Dutch Cup 1982/1983[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]CU. 13/11/1982 NAC – Ajax 0:3 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 09/01/1983 Ajax – FC Den Haag 3:2 (~65. Van Veen>) [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 23/02/1983 Ajax – Roda JC 2:0 (?.>Van `t Schip) [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 09/03/1983 Roda JC – Ajax 1:3 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 30/03/1983 Ajax – PSV 2:0 [2:0, 72.] (?.>Van `t Schip) [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 13/04/1983 PSV – Ajax 2:0 (?.Molenaar>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 11/05/1983 Ajax – NEC 3:1 (?. >Van `t Schip)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 17/051983 NEC – Ajax 1:3 XX[/FONT]

    Clarification: Double cross (XX) means that he did not play. A double question mark (??), not seen above, means that it is uncertain whether he played. A question mark in the substitution info ( ? ) means that it is not known when the substitution took place.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    1983/1984

    The season 1983/1984 is seen as his breakthrough season. It was a season marked by the departure of many experienced players like Piet Schrijvers, Johan Cruijff and Søren Lerby. Also his rival Wim Kieft departed, he was sold to Pisa for 3,5 million Dutch guilders.
    His definitive breakthrough performance took place in the Olympic stadium against Feyenoord. He scored a hat-trick, and was the first one to do it since Ruud Geels in 1975. The 8:2 win remained the heaviest Feyenoord defeat until 2010, but it is still the biggest win of Ajax over its rivals in the professional era. Remarkable is that Feyenoord, with Johan Cruijff in their team, still won the championship though.
    Van Basten also received an invite for the senior national team and scored an important away goal in a qualification match against Ireland. At that time it seemed that a renovated and young Holland finally grabbed their chance to qualify for euro84 but a 12:1 win of Spain against Malta ended this fairytale.
    However, Pfeiffer's disease meant that he was ruled out between October and February and at hindsight it has even been suggested by former club representatives that his re-rentry came too soon. The strain on his physique and mind had taken its toll.
    Nevertheless, he signed a new contract at January 1984 which raised his base-salary to 15000 Dutch guilders per month. His five goals in the last match of the season secured his first topscorer title in the Eredivisie.

    [FONT=&quot]1983/1984 [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]1. 21/08/1983 FC Utrecht – Ajax 1:1 [0:1, 5.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. 24/08/1983 Ajax - Willem II 5:0 [2:0, 22. 3:0, 27. 4:0, 69. 5:0, 72.] (80. >Van Buuren)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. 28/08/1983 Ajax – PEC Zwolle 4:2 [2:0, 49.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. 31/08/1983 Volendam – Ajax 0:2 [0:1, 64. 0:2, 86.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]5. 04/09/1983 Ajax – Helmond Sport 7:2 (65. >Godee)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 07/09/1983 Netherlands – Iceland 3:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]6. 11/09/1983 Fortuna Sittard – Ajax 1:2 [1:2, 85.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC1. 14/09/1983 Ajax – Olympiakos (GRE) 0:0 [1st rnd][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]7. 18/09/1983 Ajax – Feyenoord 8:2 [2:0, 24. 6:2, 75. 8:2, 87.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(F). 21/09/1983 Belgium – Netherlands 1:1 [0:1, 64.] [/FONT][FONT=&quot](46. Houtman>) [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]8. 24/09/1983 Haarlem – Ajax 3:3[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC1. 28/09/1983 Olympiakos (GRE) – Ajax 2:0 [1st rnd] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]9. 02/10/1983 Ajax – Groningen 1:1 [1:1, 87.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 12/10/1983 Ireland – Netherlands 2:3 [2:2, 65.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]10. 16/10/1983 Den Bosch – Ajax 3:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]11. 23/10/1983 Go Ahead – Ajax 1:3 [1:3, 61.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]12. 30/10/1983 Ajax – AZ67 2:1 (78. >Van `t Schip)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 16/11/1983 Netherlands – Spain 2:1 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 17/12/1983 Netherlands – Malta 5:0 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]21. 12/02/1984 Helmond Sport – Ajax 0:2 (60. >Bosman)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]22. 19/02/1984 Ajax – Fortuna Sittard 5:1 [2:0, 24. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]5:0, 68.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]23. 26/02/1984 Feyenoord – Ajax 4:1 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]24. 11/03/1984 PEC Zwolle – Ajax 1:1 (70. >Van `t Schip)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(F). 14/03/1984. Netherlands – Denmark 6:0 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]25. 18/03/1984 Ajax – Haarlem 0:3 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]26. 25/03/1984 FC Groningen – Ajax 1:5 [1:4, 66.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]27. 01/04/1984 Ajax – Den Bosch 5:2 [2:0, 20.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]28. 08/04/1984 Ajax – Go Ahead 3:1 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]29. 15/04/1984 AZ67 – Ajax 1:1 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]30. 21/04/1984 Ajax – PSV 1:0 [1:0, 54.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]31. 23/04/1984 Roda JC – Ajax 1:1[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]32. 29/04/1984 Ajax – Excelsior 4:0 [1:0, 11. 4:0, 54.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33. 06/05/1984 Sparta – Ajax 5:2 [2:1, 39. 5:2(p), 87.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]34. 13/05/1984 Ajax – DS79 7:2 [1:0(p), 8. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2:0, 10. 3:0(p), 22. 6:1, 64. 7:1, 66.][/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Topscorers Eredivisie [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. Van Basten 28[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. Eriksen 23[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. Koolhof 23[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. Thoresen 23

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Dutch Cup 1983/1984
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 09/10/1983 HOV - Ajax 0:5 [3:0, 26.] (46. >????)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 11/12/1983 DWV – Ajax 0:6 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 01/02/1984 Ajax – Feyenoord 2:2 [2:2, 68.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 15/02/1984 Feyenoord – Ajax 2:1 (a.e.t.) [1:1, 83.][/FONT]


    Clarification: Double cross (XX) means that he did not play. A double question mark (??), not seen above, means that it is uncertain whether he played. A question mark in the substitution info ( ? ) means that it is not known when the substitution took place.
    N(F) = National team, friendly
    N(Q) = National team, qualification match
     
  5. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Thanks to you for such excellent info, "Puck". I always appreciated that "MVB" had such grace and skill; yet he wasn't afraid to "bash and crash" about in the opposition's danger area when the situation required that approach IMO. Being English, I always like a centre-forward who demonstrated that he deserved to wear the No.9 on the back of his shirt.
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    1984/1985

    This season was the only season of his entire career where he was 100% fit, according to himself in a 3 hours long documentary. It was therefore the only season where he had a chance for the 'Dutch footballer of the year award', he had too few appearances in the other Ajax-season. Ajax won the championship in that season but the road towards it was turbulent with a sacked coach as a result, five rounds before the end of the season.
    According to the politically correct story it was the UEFA Cup match against Bohemians Praha where the first frictions came to the surface. Ajax lost the match and manager Aad de Mos declared to the press that "you cannot win the war with these boys". The press agreed but also noted Van Basten as an exception in this particular match, in contrast to Rijkaard and Vanenburg.
    The season progressed with mixed results although Ajax wasn't ruled out for the championship altogether. Van Basten was among the Ajax players who expressed internally the opinion that Ajax would not win anything with De Mos as manager.
    The indisputable fact was that Van Basten his form dropped in the second-half of the season. National team coach Beenhakker didn't select him for the qualification match against Austria, it was the one and only time in his NT-career where he was neglected for form-related reasons.
    In addition, De Mos felt from his perspective that he was challenged by some of his key players. These two components together made up his mind for the match against FC Utrecht, he benched Van Basten and Van 't Schip for this match. Van Basten replied famously to the press: "De Mos has never been in shape".
    De Mos finally lost his authority altogether when he benched them again against Haarlem, but used them this time as substitute in the second-half. Ajax lost the game and the title wasn't so sure anymore. De Mos was fired but Ajax sealed nevertheless their title in the away match against Roda JC (round 33).


    [FONT=&quot]1984/1985[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. 02/09/1984 Sparta – Ajax 2:5 [2:5, 74.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. 05/09/1984 Ajax – MVV 5:1 [3:0, 53.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. 09/09/1984 Ajax – Excelsior 3:0 [2:0, 78.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. 16/09/1984 AZ67 – Ajax 1:2[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC3. 18/09/1984 Differdange (LUX) – Ajax 0:0 [1st rnd][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]5. 26/09/1984 NAC – Ajax 1:2 (88. >Van Buuren)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC3. 03/10/1984 Ajax – Differdange (LUX) 14:0 [3:0, 15. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]5:0, 39. 7:0, 49. 9:0, 65. 14:0, 84.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]6. 07/10/1984 Ajax – Go Ahead 7:2 [4:2, 51.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]7. 13/10/1984 Ajax – Haarlem 4:3[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 17/10/1984 Netherlands – Hungary 1:2 (61. >Houtman)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC3. 24/10/1984 Ajax – Bohemians Praha (TCH) 1:0 [2nd rnd] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]8. 28/10/1984 FC Groningen – Ajax 2:2 [1:1, 46. 1:2, 67.] (46. De Wit>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]9. 31/10/1984 Ajax – Fortuna Sittard 1:0 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]10. 04/11/1984 Ajax – FC Utrecht 1:0 (80. >Van Buuren)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC3. 07/11/1984 Bohemians Praha (TCH) - Ajax 1:0 [2nd rnd][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]11. 10/11/1984 Zwolle – Ajax 1:1[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 14/11/1984 Austria – Netherlands 1:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]12. 25/11/1984 Feyenoord – Ajax 1:3 [1:3, 79.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]13. 02/12/1984 Ajax – Roda JC 7:0 [1:0, 5. 4:0, 44.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]14. 09/12/1984 Volendam – Ajax 1:3 [1:3, 82.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]15. 16/12/1984 Ajax – PSV 1:4[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q) 23/12/1984 Cyprus – Netherlands 0:1 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]16. 03/02/1985 MVV – Ajax 1:3[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]17. 10/02/1985 Ajax – Sparta 4:0 [4:0, 53.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 27/02/1985 Netherlands – Cyprus 7:1 [6:1, 65.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]18. 03/03/1985 Excelsior – Ajax 0:1 [0:1, 36.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]19. 05/03/1985 Den Bosch – Ajax 1:1 [1:1, 57.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]20. 10/03/1985 Ajax – NAC 6:1 [4:1, 72. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]6:1, 75.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]21. 17/03/1985 Ajax – AZ’67 4:2[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]22. 24/03/1985 Fortuna Sittard – Ajax 0:2 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]23. 06/04/1985 Ajax – PEC Zwolle 2:1[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]24. 08/04/1985 FC Twente – Ajax 1:1 [0:1, 12.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]25. 14/04/1985 Go Ahead – Ajax 0:2 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]26. 17/04/1985 Ajax – Den Bosch 2:2 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]27. 21/04/1985 Ajax – FC Groningen 1:3 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 01/05/1985 Netherlands – Austria 1:1 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]29. 05/05/1985 Haarlem – Ajax 1:0 (60. Bosman>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]30. 07/05/1985 Ajax – FC Twente 4:1 [1:0, 11.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 14/05/1985 Hungary – Netherlands 0:1 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]31. 19/05/1985 Ajax – Feyenoord 4:2 [4:2, 81.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]32. 25/05/1985 Roda JC – Ajax 2:3 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33. 27/05/1985 Ajax – Volendam 5:2 [1:0, 23. 2:0, 29. 4:2, 74. 5:2, 77.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]34. 02/06/1985 PSV – Ajax 4:0 [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Topscorers Eredivisie:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. Van Basten 22[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. Houtman 21[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. Thoresen 21[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. Hoyer 19[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. Lengkeek 19[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]KNVB Beker 1984/1985[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 17/11/1984 DOVO – Ajax 0:5 ??[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 11/12/1984 Ajax – Heerjansdam 6:0 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 13/03/1985 Ajax – PSV 1:1 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 19/03/1985 PSV – Ajax 2:0 XX[/FONT]
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Mr Roy,

    Thank you for your compliment. The sentence highlighted in bold is interesting: various publications have an extensive chapter about his injuries, in particular his right ankle injury. Medical experts suggest that this 'making war in the penalty box' attitude affected his healing process.

    A famous anecdote is the elbow against Pascal Plovie of Brugge. It fractured his cheekbone. Plovie has now a metal plate at his skull and the strange thing is.... he is proud for enjoying this treatment :eek:

    Another thing that was remarkable when re-reading various biographies was that he was a striker in his youth. This is a remarkable fact compared with other famous Dutch strikers as Kluivert, Van Nistelrooy, Van Persie and even Ruud Geels... who played as winger or midfielder but not as out and out striker in their youth... Kluivert played on a regular basis as forward at his youth but wasn't exactly a striker.
    It is a bit common wisdom to think that your best players should play in midfield but I'll come back to that in other seasons...
     
  8. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Fantastic info.

    Just curious : you wrote Faas Wilkes, Abe Lenstra and Willem van Hanegem are contenders for the spot of second Dutch player ever. Generally you hear other names (at least outside Holland) such as Neeskens, Krol, Gullit and Rijkaard for that spot. Any particular reason you don't rate them as high as most do ?
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I tried to reflect how it is generally seen in this nation; my personal opinion is a bit different. To the names you listed here I'm personally tempted to add Rensenbrink too.

    I especially like Ruud Krol because he was as side-back/defender almost the complete package. It is inherent in Dutch football culture that you use the side-backs to mark opposing attackers, that is why Suurbier often received the nod. Krol was perfectly capable to do this too. His physical attributes were renowned and Cruijff makes in his own official biography a jealous remark about Krol's physique and recuperation abilities.
    But apart from this, he was ambidextrous too, as a side-back. He was naturally right-footed, with which he sent that famous pass to Rensenbrink in the 1978 World Cup final, but had a developed left-foot as well. He had to, because the left-back position was meant for him. I found it really stunning to watch this ambidextrous ability.
    Krol was indeed a special player and one of the Ajax players who epitomized the 'total football' brand the most (but not the only one of course).
    Neeskens had that too, but his versatility was limited to the defensive positions (right-back, centre-back, central midfield) although he had some attacking capabilities of course. Still, the attacking capabilities of Krol as side-back, while he also had the passes as his weapon, impresses me a bit more. No coincidence of course because Ajax let him play as centre-forward during various training-sessions :cool:
    Still, I don't think that he is seen as the equal of Van Hanegem or Van Basten.

    Rijkaard and Gullit: no possibility that they have the same fame as Van Basten. Of this pair, I like Rijkaard for his very consistent performances in a orange shirt, also from a longevity aspect. Rijkaard was a fantastic defensive player while not being a pure destroyer. In this respect, he epitomized perhaps the spirit of football a bit more than Johan Neeskens. His role and style as centre-back was peculiar, as a mixture between the libero and stopper. Or to say it better: he had both faces during a match and the vision to know when he had to mark and when he had some freedom to join midfield and even attack. Still, I don't believe that he has the same mythical status of Van Basten.

    Van Hanegem: the most popular football publication in Holland ranks him as the second best ever and also the editor, not related to the overall ranking, sees him as the second best ever and places him even on the same height as Johan Cruijff. No doubt that he is a contender although he isn't necessarily the best Feyenoord-player of all-time. Some say Coen Moulijn was the best, not him.

    Abe Lenstra: Lenstra his myth has come a bit under attack during the past one and a half decade but despite this he is by some, especially in the northern parts of Holland, seen as the equal or better than Faas Wilkes. So to be a bit polite, I named him here in the same breath.
    Wilkes: what more can you say about him? By far the best goalscoring ratio of them all, and that in a time when Holland lost easily from Saarland and Luxembourg. The first to succeed in Spain and Italy, the idol of Johan Cruijff. It is only sad that this man from Rotterdam never played for Feyenoord ;) Maybe he is a bit more popular among the older generations but I'm quite sure that he is seen at that level below the absolute number one. He was after all the number one before that boy from Amsterdam came along.

    Maybe this is interesting for you to get some idea:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1837289&highlight=recalculated


    I hope this answer clarifies enough.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    1985/1986

    This season was marked by the return of Johan Cruijff, this time as manager/coach.
    It didn't mean though that Ajax immediately returned to greatness. The European Cup tie against Porto was lost. Ajax couldn't find a solution for the 'parking the bus' of Porto and two defensive lapses, according to Cruijff, meant two goals down. Ajax only created two chances, both were headers made by Van Basten. The return leg at home ended in 0:0 with Ajax only creating four chances. Van Basten received one chance, again a header, but this time the header wasn't on target.
    In the league was skepticism of some publications soon replaced with awe: Ajax scored a stunning 120 league goals in 34 matches and received applause for their various show-exploits.
    The flip-side of reality was that they only managed to win one point out of eight against rivals PSV and Feyenoord. Ajax finished the league at second place on considerable distance. Ajax won the domestic cup in this season.
    It was also the season where Van Basten played a dozen of games with number six on his shirt. Another, more conventional striker John Bosman made his breakthrough. The initial solution was that Bosman played as second-striker very close to the proximity of Van Basten. But Cruijff had an ambitious idea: make a midfielder of Van Basten. "It is the wrong sequential order if a more technically gifted player is dependent on the less technically gifted player, this chain should be the other way around". The father of Van Basten, being a bit afraid for his future, was this time less opposed to the idea, although Van Basten was now a matured man. Hence, Van Basten had also the guts to say that he did not like the idea. So the experiment stopped after about 10-12 games.
    Van Basten received a new contract, this time for 400000 Dutch guilders a year, at the third of June 1985. He didn't disappoint Ajax, he became European topscorer for the 1985/1986 season.
    A professional and private low point came on the 16th of October of 1985. Holland played a crucial World Cup play-off game against Belgium. Wim Kieft received an early red card for a retaliation in the 4th minute on Franky Vercauteren. Holland lost the away game with 1:0. Worse, Van Basten received a yellow card and was suspended for the all-deciding return leg. But the nightmare wasn't over: he came back to home and heard suddenly that his mother has had a cardiac arrest, followed by cerebral infarction two weeks later. Holland did not qualify without him.

    Van Basten did not conclude his season injury free. Doctors had warned him and his father years before that his tendency to move on his forefeet, like a ballet-dancer, made him extra vulnerable against lunges. It was, also without these lunges, a stressed part of his body. Van Basten missed a couple of league games due to a left-ankle injury in March 1986, for which he had surgery in the fall of 1986. This is, to be clear, not the injury that ended his career, it was successfully healed.


    [FONT=&quot]1985/1986[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. 18/08/1985 Excelsior – Ajax 2:3 [0:2, 30.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. 25/08/1985 AZ67 – Ajax 1:2 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. 28/08/1985 Ajax – PSV 2:4 [1:2, 53.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. 01/09/1985 FC Groningen – Ajax 2:1 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(F). 04/09/1985 Netherlands – Bulgaria 1:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]5. 08/09/1985 Ajax – VVV 7:1 [1:0, 23. 7:1(p), 89.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]6. 15/09/1985 Heracles – Ajax 1:8 [0:2, 12. 1:3, 35. 1:5(p), 65. 1:6, 69. 1:7, 70.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC1. 18/09/1985 FC Porto (POR) – Ajax 2:0 [1st rnd][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]7. 22/09/1985 Ajax – Roda JC 6:0 [1:0, 2. 5:0, 75. 6:0, 78.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]8. 29/09/1985 Go Ahead – Ajax 1:2 [1:1, 37. 1:2, 73.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC1. 02/10/1985 Ajax – FC Porto (POR) 0:0 [1st rnd][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]9. 06/10/1985 Ajax – Feyenoord 1:2 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 16/10/1985 Belgium – Netherlands 1:0 [play-offs WC][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]10. 20/10/1985 Utrecht – Ajax 1:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]11. 27/10/1985 Ajax – Haarlem 5:1 [2:1, 20.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]12. 02/11/1985 FC Den Bosch – Ajax 0:3 [0:1, 2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]0:3(p), 81.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]13. 10/11/1985 Ajax – Fortuna Sittard 4:1 [2:0, 36.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]14. 13/11/1985 Ajax – NEC 2:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 20/11/1985 Netherlands – Belgium 2:1 XX [play-offs WC][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]15. 01/12/1985 FC Twente – Ajax 1:8 [0:2, 23. 0:7(p), 67.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]16. 08/12/1985 Ajax – Sparta 9:0 [3:0, 40. 4:0, 46. 5:0, 49. 6:0(p), 58. 7:0, 63. 9:0(p) 85.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]17. 15/12/1985 Ajax – Excelsior 3:0 [3:0, 90.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]18. 21/12/1985 MVV – Ajax 1:4 [0:2, 8.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]19. 02/02/1986 Ajax – AZ67 8:2 [2:0, 18. 5:1, 56.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]20. 05/02/1986 Ajax – MVV 2:1 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]21. 09/03/1986 Ajax – Heracles 7:0 [1:0, 4. 5:0(p), 59. 6:0, 85.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(F). 12/03/1986 East-Germany – Netherlands 0:1 [0:1, 12.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]22. 16/03/1986 PSV – Ajax 1:1 [1:1, 82.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]29. 20/04/1986 VVV – Ajax 1:4 [1:4, 86.] (46. Mühren>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]30. 27/04/1986 Ajax – Den Bosch 4:1 [4:1(p), 72.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]31. 04/05/1986 Fortuna Sittard – Ajax 1:4 (71. >Gemert)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(F). 29/04/1986 Netherlands – Scotland 0:0 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(F). 14/05/1986 West-Germany – Netherlands 3:1 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33. 19/05/1986 Ajax – FC Twente 6:0 [5:0(p), 80.] (46. Van `t Schip>)[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Topscorers Eredivisie [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. Van Basten 37[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. Gullit 24[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. Houtman 23[/FONT]



    [FONT=&quot]KNVB Beker 1985/1986[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 09/10/1985 Ajax – Sparta 3:0 [2:0(p), 76.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 09/02/1986 FC Utrecht – Ajax 0:4 [0:3, 62.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 19/03/1986 RHC – Ajax 1:3 (??.>Rijnink – reports cite knee ligament + left ankle injury)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 23/04/1986 Ajax – Groningen 1:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 07/05/1986 NEC – Ajax 1:3 (8.>Vanenburg – reports cite minor right ankle injury) [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 28/05/1986 Ajax – RBC 3:0 [/FONT]
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Quote of him about he attributes of the ideal striker, in 1986:

    "The ideal striker has the trapping of Maradona, the mentality of Ian Rush, the solo dribbles of Laudrup, the technique and serenity of Altobelli, the acceleration of Butragueno and, to not forget, the démarrage of Gullit."
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    1986/1987

    The season started with the departures of Ronald Koeman and Gerald Vanenburg to PSV. Johan Cruijff was towards the outside world very confident and at hindsight you might say that his was based on reality: they achieved one point more than in the previous season, with a better head-to-head against the other two rivals, they defended their Cup title successfully and won the Cup Winners Cup - the first international prize of Ajax since the early 70s. The only downside was the goal production, a 'mere' 92 goals, although the continuing efficiency of John Bosman gave hope for the future.
    Van Basten his performances for the national team were hopeful too. Although the goal-production still wasn't that awesome, he was since a while finally the undisputed centre-forward and also gave the impression to the press that he had adapted himself to the different playing style of the national team. The larger spaces suited the athletic Gullit well but it was a puzzle to let Van Basten do his thing at the same time, without damaging the effectiveness of Gullit.
    Top class performances such as against PSV (two goals + a chip that went just over, various dribbles and other showboats), Feyenoord (solo dribble -> goal) and the famous overhead kick against Den Bosch came to a halt on the fatal 7th of December 1986.
    It is still a mystery why Van Basten walked in a irritated manner on the pitch that day. His frustrations resulted in a tackle on Edwin Olde Riekerink of Groningen. His father was looking at a distance of 20 meters. "It is over", was the first thought of Joop van Basten. This tackle damaged his cartilage in the right ankle permanently and together with a postponed and bad treatment it was this injury that ultimately ended his career. Van Basten has never played painless football ever since that December day.
    Cruijff agreed with Van Basten to only use him in the big matches. It was an advice of the medical specialists as well because the altered movements as a result of the injury meant that he was also developing injuries elsewhere in his body. He played one of his better matches for Ajax in the quarter-final and semi-final ties against respectively Malmo and Zaragoza, especially the latter one is seen as one of his pinnacles in a Ajax-shirt. He leaved the club with two prizes, the Dutch Cup and the Cup Winners Cup. And scored in both finals.

    [FONT=&quot]1986/1987[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. 24/08/1986 Haarlem – Ajax 0:3 [0:2, 76.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. 27/08/1986 Ajax – FC Den Haag 2:3 [1:2(p), 74. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2:3, 83.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. 31/08/1986 Ajax – PSV 3:0 [2:0, 41. 3:0, 62.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. 03/09/1986 Excelsior – Ajax 0:2 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]5. 07/09/1986 Sparta – Ajax 2:6 [1:3, 47. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]1:4, 54. 1:5, 64.][/FONT][FONT=&quot] (78. >Scholten)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(F). 10/09/1986 Czechoslovakia – Netherlands 1:0 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]6. 14/09/1986 Ajax – Groningen 0:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC2. 17/09/1986 Bursaspor (TUR) – Ajax 0:2 [0:2, 85.] [1st rnd][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]7. 21/09/1986 Ajax – Go Ahead 3:2 [1:0, 2. 2:0(p), 16.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]8. 24/09/1986 Roda JC – Ajax 1:1[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]9. 28/09/1986 Veendam – Ajax 0:1 (70. >Scholten)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC2. 01/10/1986 Ajax – Bursaspor (TUR) 5:0 [3:0, 24.] [1st rnd][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]10. 05/10/1986 Ajax – Fortuna Sittard 6:2 [1:0, 34.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 15/10/1986 Hungary – Netherlands 0:1 [0:1, 67.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]11. 19/10/1986 Ajax – VVV 4:0 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC2. 22/10/1986 Ajax – Olympiakos (GRE) 4:0 [3:0, 53.] [2nd rnd][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]12. 26/10/1986 AZ – Ajax 1:6 [1:6, 89.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]13. 29/10/1986 Ajax – FC Utrecht 3:0 [1:0, 20.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]14. 02/11/1986 Feyenoord – Ajax 2:3 [1:2, 20.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC2. 05/11/1986 Olympiakos (GRE) – Ajax 1:1 (80. >Boeve) [2nd rnd][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]15. 09/11/1986 Ajax – Den Bosch 3:1 [3:1, 70.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 19/11/1986 Netherlands – Poland 0:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]16. 22/11/1986 PEC Zwolle – Ajax 0:1 [0:1, 82.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]17. 30/11/1986 Ajax – FC Twente 4:0 [1:0, 9. 3:0, 47.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]18. 07/12/1986 FC Groningen – Ajax 0:3 (30. >Winter)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 21/12/1986 Cyprus – Netherlands 0:2 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(F). 21/01/1987 Spain – Netherlands 1:1 XX[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]23. 08/03/1987 Ajax – Excelsior 3:0 [2:0, 51.] (46. Bosman>)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC2. 14/03/1987 Mälmo FF (SWE) – Ajax 1:0 [quarter][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC2. 18/03/1987 Ajax – Mälmo FF (SWE) 3:1 [1:0, 13., 3:0, 72.] [quarter][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]24. 21/03/1987 Ajax – Sparta 3:0 [1:0, 7. 3:0, 83.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 25/03/1987 Netherlands – Greece 1:1 [1:1, 56.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]25. 29/03/1987 PSV – Ajax 1:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC2. 08/04/1987 Real Zaragoza (ESP) – Ajax 2:3 (89. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]>Scholten) [semi][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]27. 12/04/1987 Ajax – Veendam 4:0 [3:0(p), 48. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]4:0, 62.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC2. 22/04/1987 Ajax – Real Zaragoza (ESP) 3:0 [semi][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]N(Q). 29/04/1987 Netherlands – Hungary 2:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]29. 02/05/1987 Ajax – AZ 2:0 [2:0, 85.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]31. 17/05/1987 Ajax – Feyenoord 1:3 [1:2(p), 80.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EC2. 13/05/1987 Ajax – Lokomotiv Leipzig (GDR) 1:0 [1:0, 21.] [final][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]32. 24/05/1987 Den Bosch – Ajax 1:4 [0:1, 38. 1:4(p), 87.] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33. 31/05/1987 Ajax – PEC Zwolle 5:2 [1:0, 20. 2:0, 31. 4:2, 80. 5:2(p), 83.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]34. 08/06/1987 FC Twente – Ajax 2:1[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Topscorers Eredivisie[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. Van Basten 31[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. Willaarts 25[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. J. Bosman 23[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]KNVB Beker 1986/1987[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 11/10/1986 Elinkwijk – Ajax 1:4 [0:1, 18. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]0:3, 34.][/FONT][FONT=&quot] (no subs info)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 11/11/1986 Rheden – Ajax 0:2 [0:1, 56.] (no subs info)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 11/03/1987 Sparta – Ajax 0:0 (w. pens) (46. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]>Winter)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 01/04/1987 Ajax – Vitesse 2:0 [2:0, 75.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 05/05/1987 Ajax – Groningen 0:0[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 19/05/1987 Groningen – Ajax 0:3 [0:1, 70.][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]CU. 05/06/1987 FC Den Haag – Ajax 2:4 (a.e.t.) [2:3, 104. 2:4, 107.][/FONT]
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The videos,

    This one is a good one although it hasn't all nice goals:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YaysOenKaF8#t=484s

    It has his debut goal. It has, in this consecutive order, the pirouette against Zaragoza (April 1987), goals against Feyenoord (the solo against yellow shirts, concluded with shot outside the penalty box; May 1985), a shot against Volendam (May 1985), a goal I don't have in my collection (seems an amateurside), a goal against Fortuna Sittard (September 1983), the chip against Feyenoord (8:2 beating, September 1983), finish against Roda JC (September 1985), finish against Volendam (not sure, I think December 1984), header against Roda JC (September 1985), a goal I can't recognize (seems a professional side though), solo goal Volendam (May 1985), overhead kick Den Bosch (November 1986), shot against Heracles (September 1985), goal against Feyenoord (November 1984), two touch finish against Sparta (feinted a defender, December 1985), a goal I can't recognise, goals against VVV (number 14, April 1986).

    Goals I missed in this compilation and was able to find:

    Solo against Feyenoord (November 1986)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iIQ8tCbIm_E#t=279s

    Nice finish and outplaying of a defender against PSV (August 1986)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vnDbvv-X4wg#t=37s
    (2 goals)

    Two nice goals against Malmo (March 1983):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_WFBIjUineo#t=146s


    Some of the nicest goals couldn't be found on youtube, unfortunately. I'll do my best.


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivi6VuaSk_k"]AFC Ajax - 1986 - YouTube[/ame]
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The club Roda JC has uploaded some highlights I see, including this run of the mill trashing, with a not particularly good Van Basten or Ajax. It gives nevertheless a good portrayal of a 'another day in the office':

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gol59fVt4Hs"]1985-09-22 Ajax - Roda JC 6-0 - YouTube[/ame]

    As said, it is not a particularly legendary performance or game.
     
  15. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Mr. Roy,

    You are once again confusing me a bit. Of course, it is a fault from my side because I did not grew up with the English terms and expressions.

    I indeed meant the most advanced player in the line-up. Van Basten was it throughout his youth while Kluivert was a forward but not necessarily the most advanced player or, I hope I now use an expression correctly, 'the fox in the box'. Van Nistelrooy was even a midfielder in his youth and first few senior years, with number 6, number 8 or number 10.

    What confuses me: isn't the predator (which Van Basten was not, although he had some decent poaching skills; there is a goal where he is under pressure, controls a ball with his chest and makes a half-volley) often the most advanced player as well? For example, I think a prime Inzaghi was such a predator isn't it?
    Raul Gonzalez was one as well but he wasn't always the most advanced player of course.

    Thank you for your patience.


    -------------------------------

    I also use this opportunity for correcting a typo:

    I said:

    "Two nice goals against Malmo (March 1983):"

    It was in March 1987.

    The rest is correct though.
     
  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    A lot of van Basten's Ajax goals were very impressive individual efforts (the section of his 'Footballs Greatest' episode you linked does have a good number of them; I noticed again a glowing testament from John Barnes at the start of the part 2 video also - he talks about how complete he was and how well he played especially against England in Euro '88).
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Anyhow, what I personally like is that he was quite complete as striker. He had a functional dribble, he had good crosses (including that step in order to make a cross), was a decent passer and especially his one touch play was of a exceptional level. He was able to do quite complicated single-touches with his heel, and it was functional too because that kept the flow into the attack - for example: the ball is sent towards him but two defenders keep an eye on him, he was able to maintain the flow of the attack with one touch of his heel.

    He was (almost) the ideal striker for a 4-3-3 system. Was comfortable on the flanks, was able to launch wingers.... The only thing that lacked a bit was defensive work-rate and other midfield-qualities. The idea of coach Cruyff wasn't that bad, he had the technical qualities but not the mentality apparently. Wasn't always entirely focused against small teams as well.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I miss though some efforts on youtube and in that compilation; there is also a goal where dribbles between two defenders with quick foot movement/trick and moves past a third defender as well before finishing. It was against Sparta I think (80% certain). I remember the goal because in the aforementioned 3 hours long documentary he said that it was pure luck. I immediately thought "come on, you can't be serious!".
    He has always said that the euro88 goal was pure luck too and caused by a not very perfect ball of Mühren. But others of Milan, Ajax and the NT have said that he was the only one to practice such impossible balls on the training. Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    Anyhow, he is notoriously shy, introvert, a bit humble in some aspects (but not in all) and had in the past also the image of being egoistic, not necessarily on the pitch but outside the pitch, in his approach to other persons.
    He gave one long interview after he retired, that is that 3 hours documentary, in 1996. But avoided any publicity in the years afterwards, therefore it was for many Ajax fans a surprise that he showed up at the 2000 Ajax testimonial match. It wasn't noticed in the announcement (everything was of course pre-arranged months before) but the story is that he decided at the very last moment, and made a telephone call to the club.
    He avoided the publicity until around 2002 or 2003, somewhere until that period. He is now a good football pundit I have to say. Very to the point, direct and precise in his comments. In contrast, that is sometimes the problem with Cruyff or Van Hanegem as pundit; you'll sometimes get a 4 minutes long monologue.

    BTW: as offtopic remark, I also have a documentary in my collection where the movements of Van Basten and Cruyff, but predominantly focused on Van Basten, is compared with the moves of a ballet dancer, with Clint Farha to be precise. I will search if I can find it somewhere so if some strange ballet movie is appearing here, you know why ;)
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Two other personal favorite Van Basten moments I was able to find on youtube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=08abkRCFdc8#t=408s
    Reason: a very simple (to execute) but effective feint against his marker in the euro88 final. Erwin Koeman saw unfortunately not the same gap that Van Basten saw in the defence.

    In the same video, shortly afterwards, also a nice example of pre-injury speed in a Holland shirt:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=08abkRCFdc8#t=480s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O_fTQQqPhns#t=331s
    Reason: preventing a counter-attack of the arch-enemy through risky but effective defensive work.


    Hope you appreciate it.
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Correction:

    The solo posted above wasn't before his injury, it was against Finland in 1989.


    Some goal-related Eredivisie records, plus his own personal best.

    Number of times topscorer:
    1. Ruud Geels (Ajax, Sparta), 5 times [75-78, 81]
    2. Marco van Basten (Ajax), 4 times [84-87]
    3. Ove Kindvall (Feyenoord), 3 times [67, 68, 71]
    3. Willy van der Kuijlen (PSV), 3 times [66, 70, 74]
    3. Dennis Bergkamp (Ajax), 3 times [91-93]
    3. Romario (PSV), 3 times [89-91]
    *) Romario and Bergkamp share one topscorer title. Kindvall shares one with Dick van Dijk, Van der Kuijlen shares one with Piet Kruiver.


    Topscorers all-time Eredivisie:
    1. Willy van der Kuijlen, 311 goals.
    2. Ruud Geels, 265 goals.
    3. Johan Cruijff, 215 goals.

    21. Marco van Basten 128 goals.

    Full list until 2003:
    http://www.beijen.net/frank/nlalrtchto.htm



    Most team-goals scored in one season:
    1. Ajax 66/67 - 122 goals
    2. Ajax 85/86 - 120 goals
    *) Eredivisie had between 1962 and 1966 16 clubs, all other seasons 18 clubs


    Most individual goals scored in one season:
    1. Coen Dillen (PSV), 43 goals in 56/57 (in 34 aps)
    2. Henk Groot (Ajax), 41 goals in 60/61 (in 32 aps)
    3. Henk Groot (Ajax), 38 goals in 59/60 (in 33 aps)
    4. Marco van Basten (Ajax), 37 goals in 85/86 (in 26 aps)


    Most consecutive matches with a goal:
    1. Pierre van Hooijdonk (NAC), 11 matches, 93/94
    2. Dennis Bergkamp (Ajax), 10 matches, 88/89
    3. Bryan Ruiz (Twente), 10 matches, 09/10
    4. Coen Dillen (PSV), 9 matches, 56/57

    ?. Marco van Basten (Ajax), 6 matches, 86/87


    Youngest goalscorer:
    Henk Medema (GVAV), 15 year, 358 days, 56/57

    Youngest goalscorer in a debut match:
    Marco van Basten (Ajax), 17 years, 154 days, 81/82

    Most goals in a single home match:
    1. Afonso Alves (Heerenveen), 7 goals, 2007 – against Heracles.
    2. Dirk Lammers (DOS), 6 goals, 1958 – against Holland Sport.
    2. Pierre Kerkhoffs (SC Enschede), 6 goals, 1959 – against Blauw Wit.
    2. Johan Cruijff (Ajax), 6 goals, 1970 – against AZ67.
    2. Marco van Basten (Ajax), 6 goals, 1985 – against Sparta.
    *) The 9:0 win against Sparta is a shared fourth place in the largest wins of all-time as well; the largest win ever is Ajax - Vitesse 12:1 (1972).

    Most goals in a single away match:
    1. Jan Seelen (Ajax), 5 goals, 1959 – against Holland Sport.
    1. Henk Schouten (Feyenoord), 5 goals, 1959- against Blauw Wit.
    1. Coen Dillen (PSV), 5 goals, 1959 – against DWS.
    1. Bert Theunissen (Ajax), 5 goals, 1964 – against Sittardia.
    1. Marco van Basten (Ajax), 5 goals, 1985 – against Heracles.
    1. Bas Dost (Heerenveen), 5 goals, 2011 – against Excelsior.


    National team records

    All-time topscorers:
    1. Patrick Kluivert, 40 goals, 79 caps.
    2. Dennis Bergkamp, 37 goals, 79 caps.
    3. Faas Wilkes, 35 goals, 38 caps.
    3. Ruud van Nistelrooij, 35 goals, 70 caps.
    5. Abe Lenstra, 33 goals, 47 caps.
    5. Johan Cruijff, 33 goals, 48 caps.
    7. Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, 30 goals, 49 caps.
    8. Beb Bakhuys, 28 goals, 23 caps.
    9. Kick Smit, 26 goals, 29 caps.
    10. Robin van Persie, 25 goals, 61 caps.
    11. Marco van Basten, 24 goals, 58 caps.
    11. Dirk Kuijt, 24 goals, 84 caps.
    13. Wesley Sneijder, 23 goals, 80 caps.
    14. Leen Vente, 19 goals, 21 caps.

    Ordered on average:

    Beb Bakhuys, 1.21
    Faas Wilkes, 0.921
    Leen Vente, 0.904
    Kick Smit, 0.896
    Abe Lenstra, 0.702
    Johan Cruijff, 0.687
    Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, 0.612
    Patrick Kluivert, 0.506
    Ruud van Nistelrooij, 0.50
    Dennis Bergkamp, 0.468
    Marco van Basten, 0.413
    Robin van Persie, 0.409
    Wesley Sneijder, 0.287
    Dirk Kuijt, 0.285

    Full list:
    http://www.voetbalstats.nl/topscnedxi.php

    Largest number of goals in one international game:
    1. Jan Vos, 1912, 5 goals against Finland
    1. Leen Vente, 1933, 5 goals against Belgium
    1. John Bosman, 1987, 5 goals against Cyprus
    1. Marco van Basten 1990, 5 goals against Malta


    Players who scored a ‘real’ hat-trick (three goals in one half):
    [​IMG]


    Players who scored an unofficial hat-trick (three goals in one match):
    http://www.voetbalstats.nl/topsnedxicgt3.php

    Explanation:
    At the upper half of the page are the players listed with hat-tricks and how many times they achieved that (for example: Beb Bakhuys made three hat-tricks in his career).

    WK Toernooi = World Cup finals
    WK Kwalificatie = World Cup qualification
    Vriendschappelijk = Friendly
    Totaal aantal keren = Total number of times [all categories added together]
    EK Toernooi = Euro finals
    EK Kwalificatie = Euro-qualification
    Olympische Spelen = Olympic Games

    Lower half page:
    - Matches with a hat-trick
    - Matches with a ‘real’ hat-trick

    Players who scored a penalty-kick [number of PKs]:
    http://www.voetbalstats.nl/pennedxi.php


    Youngest goalscorers all-time for NT:
    Van Basten is the eighth youngest goalscorer for Holland. Kluivert and Seedorf stand above him.
     
  22. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    I like how there is an accompanying commentary for each season. Is that taken from the book or your own work?

    So van Basten's only injury-free season was 1984-85, yet he "only" scored 21 goals that year, while the next year he scored 37 goals (despite injuries and starting out as a midfield player).

    The midfield player bit astounds me, especially Cruyff using the "6" for van Basten, not the "8" or "10" which would be more suited to a midfielder with offensive qualities. Did he actually intended van Basten to play a defensive role in midfield? Just wondering.
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It is my own work but I used some biographies of course and also (newspaper) reports, especially for the matches I discuss.

    (he scored 22 goals)

    That is correct and it is also strange that he still won the PFA-award (the Dutch equivalent of it, that is) over the 84/85 season. The prize was meant as a reward for the 84/85 season but it was, quite peculiar, awarded at January 1986. So maybe, the date was changed to April/May (thus just after the season) in the 1990s, the first half of 85/86 had an influence but that wasn't the intention of the award.
    84/85 was the only season where he was eligible for the FWA-award, often seen as the more important one, because he was fit for the complete season and played over 30 games (the system is that the worst [number] ratings are dropped, and the average is calculated over the rest of the ratings - not playing formally means a '1' as rating, the lowest).

    One thing: Van Basten also played for about four to six games as winger or replacement of the absent Vanenburg in midfield in 84/85 but I did not regard this as important enough to note, and it wasn't the intention of De Mos anyway. It was an emergency solution in most cases (this is a different story for his NT career though, it was the intention of the coaches to play him out of position).

    It is guess work why his form dropped and a minefield to walk into, everyone had and has its own interests and story, but suffice to say that he wasn't selected for the match against Austria (May 1), with Kieft and Houtman selected as the strikers in a 17 man squad. He was selected though for the qualification match against Hungary (May 14). De Mos was fired on the 6th of May, with Kieft and Houtman not getting injured in the process. Van Basten replaced Houtman in the squad, who had not scored in the last five league games (Houtman scored 12 goals in 12 league games in the 12 matches before those five goalless games; Houtman was arguably in shape between November 1984 and early-April 1985).
    I guess that he convinced the NT coach enough in the meantime. NT coach Beenhakker explicitly stated though that Van Basten underperformed as a reason for his omittance in the 'Austria squad', so that is beyond any doubt (from the NT coach perspective at least; not everyone agrees but the drop in ratings is striking etcetera so I see it as an indisputable fact). And Van Basten played the full 90 minutes against Hungary, in a I'd say average game for his standards. He created a half-dozen of chances but also missed, I'd say, two golden opportunities.

    No and yes.

    He intended to get him more sharp in his mind. The main concern was fitting Bosman and Van Basten in one team but the image that Van Basten did not give the full 100% against many minor teams was a secondary thing. The lack, or inconsistency, of defensive work by Van Basten as a result of this remained a major concern during his career; that was one of the reasons why Bosman was the starting striker in euro88 and not Van Basten.
    A third thing is that Cruyff has peculiar ideas about the tasks of 'the best man'. The best man has to be the captain (he made Van Basten the captain in January 1986), the best man has to be the PK-taker (interesting...), the best man has to play in midfield - or drop into it, the best man has to do throw-ins ("because he is the unmarked man"), the best man has to do his defensive work (because how can he inspire others if he is damn lazy without the ball?) and so on. Cruyff stated in this period that he wants Van Basten for 90 minutes, and not just for 60 minutes.
    So, while an attacker can have the luxury of being lazy, a midfielder in a 4-3-3 system has not this privilege. If a midfielder looses his focus or does for whatever other reason not his work, it will be punished, the team will be overran in midfield. Van Basten was more or less "forced" as midfielder to be focused and give the 100%. The only security you have in a 4-3-3/3-4-3 is the spare man at the back, no one else. It will be obvious for every spectator to see you not doing your work properly, with the defenders cleaning up your mess, if possible.
    And this is the last part of my reply; I'd say that the 'purist' form of 4-3-3/3-4-3 doesn't play with a holding player at all. It doesn't mean that these tasks do not exist but it is full-filled by players who also have other things to do, often done by one of the centre-backs while the other one remain the spare man at the back (see the De Boer-Blind partnership).

    The 'playing in midfield' episode wasn't a failure, the ratings remained excellent - more or less on the same level - and Cruyff saw it as a promising experiment (he was applauding Van Basten's overall offensive and defensive technique, incl. technically sound sliding tackles and so on), but Van Basten did not like it. He says in the aforementioned documentary that he was jealous to see Bosman scoring (almost) as much as he did in midfield.

    Regarding the numbering: number 6 isn't solely reserved for defensive mid-fielders. In a 4-3-3 midfield, with two advanced mid-fielders and one more deep-lying midfielder, it is not strange to see the number 6 being used for one of these two central/attacking mid-fielders.

    But if a side plays with one advanced mid-fielder and two "deep-lying" players, it is indeed strange. Hence, Arnold Mühren, not to be confused with his brother Gerrie, often wore the number 10. However, Van Basten also played at that position a couple of times with number 6, which was indeed peculiar.

    PS: John Bosman played sometimes, not always, with number 6 as well but he was definitely playing more advanced. While formally playing in midfield in a 4-3-3 formation, it resulted in practice in a lopsided 4-4-2 like formation.

    PS2: as addition to what I wrote earlier, I was a bit incomplete in saying that his tendency to move on his forefeet made him injury-prone, there are more footballers who do this; that injury-proneness was also influenced by a certain inter-related 'deviating' (compared with the average of the, football-playing, population) stance of his bones and muscles.
     
  24. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Thank you mr. Roy,

    The link does not work unfortunately.
     

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