Since I mentioned it in the Hillcrest Syndicate Elections thread, I thought I would go ahead and start a new "suggestion" thread for people to post & discuss ideas for improving the game-day experience within the Cauldron. My only request is this: Please don't just post a bunch of what you may see as problems without offering up some possible solutions. Let's use this thread as a way to build-up rather than tear down.
Tearing down is fine, but I assume his point was to do more than just tear down. It was to also offer suggestions to help build back up as well.
this isn't the construction business and you'll find that this doesn't hold true in ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. no reason for the caps other than not being sober at the moment
I'm trying to put a post together, but it's going to take some time to type it all out and make it readable.
IMO... Until someone or some group comes forward to take charge or the lead...Hillcrest Syndicate should be the ones the FO looks to for anything Cauldron related... Or until there is a more unified Individual Supporter Group Leadership formed ( or STH group ) and the FO recongizes it and utilizes it, HS is the main group that knows more about the goings on and has a working relationship with them. Maybe someone from the HS needs to be the first PR person or whatever for the Cauldron and talk to the FO about what we want or what needs to be done with the Cauldron. When someone else that can handle the responsiblity can step up or be voted in by the STH's of the cauldron, then so be it. We as a whole do a lot of griping but there are very few that actually step up beyond BS to do anything about it. I see and hear a lot of the HS doing the stepping up but no one else other than on here. I see alot of our problem versus some of the other groups for other teams is that we are 1. alot smaller 2. we are spread out over several miles and states 3. we don't get as much help from the FO as the other groups/teams do 4. We do a lot of talking and not a lot of doing 5. A lot of people in the Cauldron are not the fans that return every home game or STH...i could be really wrong on #5!! But again it is IMO!
I don't think it should be HS's responsibility to speak for the entire section. As a member of the HS leadership, I know I don't want that. I'd prefer to have the committee made up of members of all the ISGs be the ones that are in charge. Since the FO AND the ISG's have dropped the ball with the formation of an "ISG council" it should be our responsibility (the ISGs themselves) to change that and set one up ourselves and then go to the FO. Maybe as the elder group (more dealings with the FO) HS should be the ones to take the lead on this. But as I said, I don't want HS being the go to group for anything Cauldron related. 1. we are definitely one of the smaller groups, especially since the move to CAB. We're still miles better off than were during the final years in 114. 2. That shouldn't be an issue at all, with communication the way it is, distance shouldn't be that big of an issue. 3. That's not entirely true, while may not get as much help as people want, we get a ton more than many other teams. They've worked with us to get a number of things taken care of including the smoke. 4.100% true and one of our biggest problems. 5. Yes and no, there are tons of STH in the Cauldron that are there every game, whether they're doing something may not be happening. Yes there are also a lot of single timers, few game people there as well. It's a decent mix, which is what you need.
Maybe HS shouldn't be the "go to guys" but in reality they already are. I don't think I said it correctly. I am not saying we have HS be our voice but maybe someone from there who already has the "relationship" with the FO be the one who goes to the Fo with our concerns or whatever until we can get a formal group together to elect someone or elect a group to do that. I may still be saying it wrong. I agree we need a "ISG council" but we also need someone to lead that, and maybe we need to start things off with is have (just as an example) Robert be the person who communicates to them, since he already has relationship with the FO. He can then start to share that relationship others to pass on the torch so we can get some fresh faces involved ro help lead the ISG's or council. AGREED!!!! But I do think it is an issue...how many STH that are in the cauldron are on here or even know about this forum or better yet get a regular update on the cauldron if dont happen to live inthe KC Metro area? We get help but also I see where we are getting in trouble from thier help..i.e. streamers. Woo hoo, we agree on something! We do need a mix but I do see alot of new faces every game that weren't there the previous game and aren't there the next game.
1. More unity between the various groups (including yardbirds) - get everyone on the same page. Meet regularly away from game day and reinforce this. 2. Improved singing/chanting. Continued use of raised stand and regular chant leaders. - New material needed also. Song for every starting player created. Gather groups together at the tailgate and practice new material or re-work old material 3. Continue to increase numbers of flags, banners, etc. I know tihs is being done. But just a reminder 4. Less in fighting between individuals within the section -- there seemed to be more of that last season than I remember previously. 5a. Better communication with front office/security about what is allowed and what is not during game time. Clearly communicate that to the whole section. 5b. Stand up for ourselves. Don't let the front office dictate what is allowed or not, negotiate. Have them state legitimate reasons for not allowing certain things and call them out in their inconsistencies (allowing away fans to do things we are not allowed to, etc) 6. Scream and yell and sing for 90 minutes, win, lose or draw. No matter how shitty we are on the pitch. Bitch after the game not during it.
I've spoken with Robert about this exact issue and I'm working on getting something done on this. At least contact wise.
I was pretty harsh in here a few times ..... don't hold it against me, just trying to call a spade a spade. This of course is also my opinion and if yours differs so be it. If I am terse sounding its because I don't want to write 3000000 words. If the Cauldron exists purely to build game time atmosphere and to be intimidating and so on then there are some minor shifts that can make it more effective: While there are calls for more songs, they need to be simple and easy to learn and hopefully catchy enough that they can roll for minutes at a time. Songs with a whole bunch of Spanish in the middle?! .... yeah, look around when those are being sung. There needs to be a little effort to get some continuous chants going for long periods. The Wizards fans are like Arsenal fans right now, they do okay when they are winning but CAB cab be a lit of a library when its not our day. I have had folk tell me this is hard to pull off but its only will stopping us ... I've seen the West Ham fans do it for entire halves win lose or draw on the road, and often there are only a thousand of them in the corner of a stadium. We just need to find our 'chant' ... the great thing about what these fans do is it infects other parts of stadiums. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYvhzPUZT2c"]YouTube- Steve Cotterills Claret and Blue Army! STEEEEVE[/ame] Something about that rhythm just gets in your head for days. The same with 'oooooh KC Wizz' .. thats a great little song, rather than be filler than the drumming. There are a billion songs we can sing but intelligent fans will struggle with 'the yellow team sucks'. I find this and similarly puerile chants are just kind of embarrassing at times and honestly if my friends were with and I'd brought them into the Cauldron I'd get some stick for it. The 'We are KC Wizz' just makes me want to go sit down somewhere We are not pulling off more songs, people don't have the ones we have now down. I really think its time to roll it back to a staple 3-4 and just forget the rest rather than expand out to more. Seriously .... 4 at most. No half hearted ass of a crow .... songs about KCW. The drumming kills it for me, its filler, nose - the goal is support, not just making a racket otherwise we might as well all turn up with plastic noise makers and piss everybody off. Now maybe I have my head squarely inserted up my eurosnobb ass, but we need the Cauldron to find an edge be it aggression, constant noise, or sarcasm or whatever. We are all over the place -- feels like I am at kindergarden one minute and the next its junior hooligan time. All supporters have a 'tone' to them. Millwall, Leeds, West Ham = Aggression and Intimidation, Liverpool you get humour and some quality cheesiness in you'll never walk alone, Arsenal ... yuppies singing when they are winning, you have places like Burnley where its just a wall of sound and Newcastle/Sunderland/Middleborough where they go beserk once the game starts and they spend the entire game in a frenzy, that arrogance behind anything Man Utd sing ...... In the UK this often reflects the demographics of teams .... when Leeds United or West Ham turned up at Highbury they just used to turn the atmosphere sinister ..... and God forbid they were actually winning because if they were then they'd just make all the noise as well. Who are the Cauldron? Its like writers finding 'their voice' .... we need to set a mood and roll with it. We can't just pinch a song from Barca and change the lyrics unless that fits - and nothing fits right now. We also can't let the Chicago Fire come into our place next season and out sing us ... that was just shit ... seriously, that cannot happen ... Its a pride thing. Ironically I place the Wizards closest to Millwall back at their worst in the late 80s through the mid 90s when their ground ********ing sucked and they just got no love ...... and they made an art out of being unpopular vocally as a fan base. Not saying we steal their shit (and we certainly don't need the aggro) but I really liked the 'Cab might be a shithole but its out shithole' line in 'Dark Cloud' thread. That was the first real defiant sentiment I have heard here and I dug it ... "No one likes us No one likes us We don't care We are Millwall Super Millwall We are Millwall From the Den" Songs aside. You either do the tifo thing well or you look like prats. Like a smoke bomb or two ..... eh ..... or lobbing streamers into play ... its just stuff that has been witnessed elsewhere and we are copying it on a micro-scale and its kinda weird. It looks like crap from the Berm and the seats to be frank and its over in seconds ... its just very underwhelming. If we can get something sustainable then great but these occasional spikes of anti-climax don't achieve much. Steeler's have a wonderful thing with their terrible towel .... something like that could be easy to pull off and could look great and its familier to other American fans around the stadium and hell when they understand it they might just join in. Find Voice Simplify Be Great My 2 Cents also has the sentiment 'United we win' attached to it ..... if the Cauldron and its various little groups cannot get on the same page its all for shit anyways. I also think its fairly obvious that on any given day that the bulk of the Cauldron fans do not belong to HS, of Southern Voodoo etc etc and ya'll need to find a way to get them embroiled in this discussion. This here ... is a vocal minority with a dozen or so guys flattering each other and pontificating but it has to actually translate to the rest of the fans and they are not here....
The question becomes, how do we get them involved in the discussion? We've tried email lists with varying degrees of succes (or lack there of). I know BS turns off some people, but there's been loud pushes from people when an effort was made to start an off BS forum similar to what groups like S8, ECS, and others do. Leaflets(sp?) at games have been tried with not much success. I'm all for getting other people into the discussion, but I'm low on ideas for how to do that.
Sit down, in person, with the yardbird people and AO and talk as adults on how we can all come together. Put recruitment of new people off to one side and get our house in order. No use bringing in new people only to piss them off cos we don't have our shit together
That's my plan for what I'm trying to get put together for the other ISGs, I've taken the lead on this and will hopefully start working something out. My comment was more about the "bulk of the Cauldron fans do not belong to HS, of Southern Voodoo etc etc ". But I understand the getting our house in order first, as I said earlier today, that's my new project.
I might get scoffed at for this but I have some experience with planting churches. There are a lot of parallels, essentially your asking people to get involved in a 'ministry' or a 'supporters group' which is not something they are used to and the trick is to make people feel valued and worthy of being listened to. Frankly if your looking for people who are going to be banner painters and work on the tailgate you won't find them ... you already have .... you don't get more people don't like to get involved when there is work but people will share an opinion if you can give them a platform to do so. I don't think BS is that platform -- its to much of a zoo around here, there are to many other people with big opinions or voices that will drown them out. People also don't like saying things that are on their mind if they think it won't be popular ... and frankly with the squabbling, elections and so on I don't think BS ever will be. I also think the vast bulk of Wizards fans ... never come here, or certainly won't post season. I don't know what that venue might be. It might be a forum hosted elsewhere that is somehow cleaner and friendlier for new people. BS, was a little intimidating when I first arrived -- it seemed cliquish and I felt like an outside because everybody was calling everybody else by first names. It might be trying to get a summit going. It might be simply having a dozen or so friendly Cauldron people who have been around for a while introducing themselves to people who they do not know at the tailgate and asking their opinions. It might be an umbrella ISG with free membership were people are encouraged to speak up which gets plugged by the FO on our behalf and all the Cauldron groups can rally around while maintaining their own thing. It might be all of the above. I dunno, but you have to reach people by a zillion different routes. I find that online forums, leaflets, mailings and emails have been poor avenues for reaching people - they are great for people that are already listening and interested but crap at engaging people who are already bombarded with email and leaflets and mailings... Asking people if you can take a number and give them a call sometime to talk about how to improve things on the other hand can be amazing if you are willing to truely listen to their ideas. Its all about being personal. If you want to grow the Cauldron then we really need to be shaking hands and saying hello to people ... and if we want opinions and feedback we need people that are willing to talk to people outside of their group and ask for opinions about what they did or didn't like on the game day and what they would like to see. I'm only here because folk like Szazzy, Sabotage, Sam and the guys on the St Louis trip were friendly enough to welcome me into the fold for a day and not treat me like a stranger - I'd waltzed through the tailgate ungreeted a few times before and left feeling like a stranger. We need 'greeters' to both grow the Cauldron and to solicit opinions .... we have gotta be willing to talk to folk. People like to feel part of something ... If that means getting a dozen or so friendly affable visible fun guys and girls to linger around it might be worth a go, the benefit is everybody will know everybody else pretty quickly ... and that can't hurt us at all. I say this, its not my personality type. I'm a bit of a wallflower unless I know people but its not so hard to actually do once you do it ...
I hear this a lot and is a good thing to also start with in fixing the Cauldron... I know Seattle is new and all but how did they get their stadium sold out and get all the attendees to do the same thing? how did they get the march ins together? is it becuz of Drew Carey, Did he do something? I am not really tlaking about getting CAB sold out but how to get the masses to follow!
Tons of guerrilla marketing, if you go back and look their FO did TONS of stuff to get the word out about the team, putting scarves every where was just a start to get the city to care about the team. As for the march ins, I believe Carey and the team helped set it up the first home game (or at least put his name on it) and that got more people to show up.
Have we tried issuing flyers or brochures to non-STH people that purchase Cauldron tickets. How much work would it be to ask the FO to give a brochure explaining the different groups and some chants that the groups to do people who purchase Cauldron tickets? Also, send that same literature out with people that purchase season tickets. That way everyone knows. You will at least tell the people that are there all the time who the groups are so they no longer have questions. The ISG summit has to be a must and all represented groups must be taken seriously. The seniority weight cannot be thrown around. I realize there are people who have been here since '96 but the problem with throwing seniority around is that it usually comes off as cocky and/or elitist. I agree with the people saying we need to get our house in order. That basically comes down to this: Get the ISG summit going ASAP. Leave ISG business to the members of those ISG Once orginization has occured, we need to unify the Cauldron instead of the back and forth crap. Take your thoughts to your leaders and let them hash it out.
I agree with everything Highbury said, especially the above. Any plan that doesn't include heavy doses of this is doomed.
Sorry guys, I have something partially typed out, but have about 3 more projects than I can handle. Most of it has to do with the above. I'll try and finish it tomorrow.
