Major League Soccer Now 3rd-Most Attended Pro Sport

MLS now outdraws the NBA and NHL.

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/11/09/mls_now_america_s_third_most_attended_sport.html.html

On average per game, not in total.

The day that MLS outdraws the NFL is the day the world recognizes the U.S. as an association football nation.

^^^ That's a little unrealistic- when the day comes the MLS outdraws NFL, it will also mean MLS also outdraws the EPL, La Liga, Serie A and every other soccer league in the world. The NFL has the world's largest average attendance (but only 8 games a year)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues

Thanks for bringing this statistic to our attention! It is remarkable. Hopefully the TV $$money$$ follows...

Do they HAVE to outdraw the NFL?
Both the NBA & MLB are not even close to outdrawing the NFL, and yet the world recognizes the US as the basketball & baseball nation.

Most of the real money is in TV revenue, so I say that it is not that important. Actually, smaller, more passionate crowds that look and sound good on TV are probably going to be our best bet at this time.

Indoor sport versus outdoor sport. Indoor arena sports have practical limitations on how big their venues can be. And, as has been mentioned, the NHL and NBA sell a lot more tickets total. Plus, average ticket prices are significantly higher for NBA and NHL than MLS.

And television viewership is a lot higher for the NBA and NHL.

A few years back (and maybe even until now) NASCAR or its supporters tried to spin it has being the most attended sports competition in the US. A good deal of effort was place in very quickly shot them down--there numbers are skewed because they have one event a week and they are a tour without "home teams." Comparing there 100k at some track that they go to once a year is not really all that much compared to a football team that gets 80k-100k over a three or four month season or a baseball team that gets 40,000 fans 81 nights a year.

MLS is drawing decent crowds. But comparing that to the NHL or the NBA is not a valid conclusion at this point in time. Now if the NHL decided that the Winter Classic was so wonderful that they were going to play a 30 odd game season in baseball and football stadiums, then a comparison could be made. But not even the NHL is that dumb.

http://www.slate.fr/lien/46207/football-affluence-mls-stades

It's in French, but an article sharing the fact that the MLS is only 600 people per match behind Ligue 1 in France.

That's pretty sweet.

Also, the outdoor/indoor sport bit doesn't knock the fact that the MLS is drawing as many/more people to its games than the NBA and NHL are drawing to theirs. Sure, it's by no mean the whole story but it is a pretty significant point.

Indoor arenas limit the ability to draw. True. However, those arenas were built to a certain seating capacity for a reason ... were they not ? I mean, why aren't the Lakers playing in a 30K seat arena ? Why aren't the Habs in a 30K arena ? Exactly.

actually it's not that significant at all... they play less than half as many games

... see, I knew this would the the point brought back up.

So, then if the NBA or NHL only played half as many games .... their att would be 25% or more per game than it is now ?

No ...

The fact that we're matching two sports in avg att that are perceived to be highly more popular is significant.

MLS also beat the UFL

I calculate a 15,145 average for the 2011 UFL season.

I wonder how the CFL do this year?

Doesn't it seem a little presumptuous to call MLS the 3rd most attended sports league in the USA when the NBA is on strike and thus, has attendance of zero?

Aside from number of games, and indoor/outdoor. There's also that this is the average of 30 teams vs 18, and that ticket prices are a lot more expensive.

It's not to be dismissive, it's just putting it in the proper perspective.

Honestly the thing I'm most impressed with is the attendance when viewed next to other soccer leagues around the world, which is closer to an apples to apples comparison.

Yes, but it seems from my cynical view of living here in the States that MLS needs to outdraw NFL to gain any respect.

and, uhhh, Seattle and games played at Stanford's stadium.

Indoor sports like hockey and basketball aren't really watchable in very large arenas. Because the playing areas are so small compared to outdoor sports, a higher percentage of your seats need to be located further away from the playing area. Teams like the Lakers and Habs could probably sell out 30K seat arenas, but the NBA and NHL are cognizant of the fact that arenas of that size would not provide as good a fan experience as their current venues.

When the Detroit Pistons played at the Pontiac Silverdome in the 80's, they averaged well over 25,000 per game and managed crowds as large as 60,000+. So no, arena size isn't indicative of maximum capacity.

The Sporting News, Slate, and the OP all make the same mistake. Not knowing the English language very well.

The title is misleading. Most-attended = most people watched it. Not average attendance per game. By this measure, MLS is still miles behind the others, and they appear to have not even considered college football, college basketball, NASCAR, or the like.

If you are talking average attendance, then that's what you should say.

But just among the big 5 pro-sports, lets take a closer look.

MLS. 17,872 per game. 18 teams x 34 Games/2 teams per game = 5,468,832 total attendance.

Total Attendance
1) MLB. 30,352 avg. 30 teams x 162 games/2 = 73,755,360
2) NBA. 17,323 avg. 30 teams x 82 games/2 = 21,307,290
3) NHL. 17,132 avg. 30 teams x 82 games/2 = 21,072,360
4) NFL. 66,960 avg. 32 teams x 16 games/2 = 17,141,760
5) MLS. 17,862 avg. 18 teams x 34 games/2 = 5,468,832.

All the other sports are at least 300% ahead of MLS in total attendance. And I shudder to think of what College Football and Basketball totals are.

Actually, from Wiki: (little difference on the big 5 figures)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_attendance_figures

Top 10 by Total Attendance
1) MLB. 30,352 avg. 30 teams x 162 games each/2 = 73,755,360
-----------------------------
2) NCAA FBS/Div 1 Football. 45,912 avg. 120 teams x 808 games = 37,678,722
-----------------------
3) NCAA Div 1 Men's BB. 5,141 avg. 529 games. Total att = 26,935,486.
4) NBA. 17,323 avg. 30 teams x 82 games each/2 = 21,307,290
5) NHL. 17,132 avg. 30 teams x 82 games/2 = 21,072,360
6) NFL. 66,960 avg. 32 teams x 16 games/2 = 17,141,760
-----------------------------
7) NCAA Div I FCS Football. 9,425 avg. Approx 214 teams, 640 games = 6,031,800
8) MLS. 17,862 avg. 18 teams x 34 games/2 = 5,468,832.
9) NCAA Div I Men's Hockey. 3,985 avg. 1,119 games. = 4,458,965.
10) NASCAR. Avg = 99,853. # Events = 36 = approximately 3,600,000.

NASCAR estimates from:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/moto...scar-brickyard-fans-chase-attendance-tv_N.htm

IF MLS does the right thing (and when does the Don do that) and stay with a balanced schedule, then a 36 game schedule with the same attendance would put MLS over 6 million total (6,108,804) and into the top 7 in total attendance: MLB, College Football, College Basketball, NBA, NHL, NFL, MLS.
=================

Again, taking those top 10 earlier, here's the rank by "average"

1) NASCAR. Avg = 99,853 (36 events). 3.6 million total.
-------------------------
2) NFL. Avg = 66,960 avg. 256 games. 17.1 million total.
------------------------------
3) NCAA FBS Football = 45,912 avg. 808 games. 37.7 million total.
4) MLB. Avg = 30,352. 2,430 games. 73.8 million total.
-----------------------------
5) MLS. Avg = 17,862. 306 games. 5.5 million total.
6) NBA. Avg = 17.323. 1,230 games. 21.3 million total.
7) NHL. Avg = 17,132. 1,230 games. 21.1 million total.
-----------------------------------
8) NCAA Div I FCS Football = 9,425 avg. 640 games. 6.0 million total.
9) NCAA Div I Men's BB = 5,141 avg. 529 games. 26.9 million total.
10) NCAA Div I Men's Ice Hockey. 3.985 avg. 1,119 games. 4.5 million total.

EDIT: This is not to say I don't view the attendance #'s and the press off of them in a positive way. I do. I love that MLS is beating NBA and NHL in average attendance. We may beat the NBA in total attendance this year as well. But in terms of total (most watched) sports, we are still behind FCS football. 5th in average. 8th in total.

Yes, I understand the pro sport distinction was made in the articles, but if we really want to get an idea of the pecking order, then NCAA sports must be accounted for.

I'm not disputing your numbers or the logic of your post, but am I reading this right in that it says that there are more college football games every year than basketball games? That just doesn't sound right.

You are absolutely right, that makes no sense at all. I must have left off a digit when I was typing the # of games there. Plus, the math doesn't work otherwise.

I went to the NCAA site, and their number a just a tad different (counting tourney games vs. not?): 335 teams, 5,275 games, 5,237 avg attendance = 27,626,165.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect...ERES&CACHEID=bdf2030046a3609298bddcc110a6426c

The responsible thing for the mod to do would be to fix the thread title. It is not the 3rd most attended sport. It had the 3rd highest avg attendance, but that means nothing because of all the factors previously mentioned. If this league had as many weeknight games as the NBA and NHL, the avg would be much lower. Go ahead and factor in USOC and Concachampions games, and you'll see the avg attendance take a dive.

It is dishonest to try to interpret "3rd highest avg attendance" to mean "3rd most attended."

Sure, but is not only MLS that does that.

The NFL is also considered by some the best attended Sports league in the USA (World).

But realistically Baseball is the most attended league sport (USA#1, Japan #2).

I do agree the title is misleading.

Really ? So then how is it that pro wrestling gets away with it ? It's got 1/3 or so of the "action area" that hockey/basketball does and it sells out larger arenas on a regular basis (WWE ppvs for instance).

I mean hell, I was in the Georgia Dome back in '98 and the place was sold out for Hogan/Goldberg. I can say I wasn't in the most desirable seat and was still able to adequately see all of the action in the ring ... which again, is not but 1/3 or so of the area of a hockey rink/basketball court (and the Georgia Dome itself has a 26K configuration for basketball by the way).

The argument is kind of weak really. I've watched plenty of basketball games in the astrodome/alamodome with over 20K seating capacity. The "distance from the action" bit is quite overplayed. I'm not saying there's nothing to it, just that arenas can be pretty decently sized (above the 18-20K norm) for hockey/basketball without hampering the atmosphere/distance from action issues.

Hell, the PBR does the same size (and bigger) venues and they have an equivalent/smaller area of action than both of these sports.

Yeah and the Game of the Century drew 52K plus to the Astrodome ... your point ?

If Pistons were drawing that, why not build the arena accordingly ? I mean they're at 22K seating but if they were getting over 25K in a venue not built for basketball, seems as though they'd want to push that with one suited for the sport yeah ?

... but they didn't. Sure, one shots or special cases draw the fans out (winter classic type stuff) ... but we're talking about the day in, day out demand ...

Because the sight lines in such a venue would abysmal? The Super Sonics also drew an asinine amount of people when playing briefly at the Kingdome.

Or how about because you can create greater demand and therefore charge more for tickets when you limit the size of an arena? Let's look at it this way... when the Pistons built the Palace, they new there were going to be 3-40k people who wanted tickets that would no longer be available. That enables you to charge whatever you want for those tickets.