Mad Men.6 [R]

Discussion in 'Movies, TV and Music' started by Crimen y Castigo, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now that I think about it, that's what the episode was all about: Characters who can't hold on to what they have. Obviously, Megan and Don have failed to hold on to what they had together. Joan can't seem to hold on to her role as partner; she has the title but she can't inhabit the role fully. And of course, the agency fails to hold on to the baked beans account. All characters grasping for something more, and in the process losing something that they already had hold of.
     
  2. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Maybe this is the ultimate conclusion of the message in Don's Dow speech last season.
     
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  3. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That also seems to demonstrate (likely deliberately by the show) how much the early-1960's aesthetic of the first several seasons was becoming increasingly out-of-place by the late-1960's.

    And not just with Don either, such as with the scene a few episodes back of Betty looking for Sandy in that run-down, hippie-infested neighborhood dressed almost exactly as she had in earlier seasons, the jarring juxtaposition of which demonstrated how much what was once considered chic and in-fashion at the beginning of the decade became seemingly old and out-of-touch by the end of it. :(

    And of course, there was the equally-jarring juxtaposition from this latest episode of Joan sitting at The Electric Circus. :eek:


    -G
     
  4. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having lived in that era I have to say that I found the reaction of the characters to Dr. Kings assassination to be overly emotional and way over the top. White America did not react as they did to Kennedy's assassination. There was shock, but a concern to how race relations would be affected and whether there would be lots of civil unrest.

    America was not pure or good on the issue of racial prejudice.

    Frankly, white washing it is insulting.
     
  5. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Harry Crane and Peggy's Real Estate agent certainly did not seem too emotional.
    Roger and Bert Cooper as well did not seem overly emotional.
    And I think Betty and Henry were also mostly concerned about riots and trouble.

    I think with Megan and Peggy being younger, their reactions track.

    And Pete Campbell and Trudy have always been very, very liberal. That's been one of the fascinating complexities of Pete's character. I found his reaction completely consistent and kind of awesome -- to have this weasel be such an honest spokesperson for civil rights.
     
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  6. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The entire scene at the advertising award show was one of shock. You hear an audible gasp in the audience. There is discussion of the program being cancelled and people not knowing what to do next. A number of women are crying. Several men have their heads in their hands. The program is temporarily suspended and people are calling home from the lobby of the hotel. The shooting took place at 6:00 pm CST. So it would have occurred at 7:00 pm local time in NYC.

    That is all revisionist history. Like it or not, the reality is that Dr. King was viewed with suspicion by many whites. It's only with time and the acceptance of the legitimacy of the civil rights movement that Dr. King's good works were accepted by mainstream white American society.
    Remember the Selma to Montgomery March was only in 1965.

    I would think that even the most liberal of white Americans would have been upset, but not to the level exhibited by Pete. It's a bit of an overreaction. When Pete erupts on Harry Crane and focuses on the fact that Dr. King was married and had children, Pete is projecting the fact he is alone and removed from his family. Remember the stilted attempt at conversation with the Chinese food deliveryman? Pete is alone and is having second thoughts that led to his eruption at Harry.

    The show is applying 21st Century values and sensibilities to the late 1960's. America was a very racist country then. You had crap being spewed to me like you're not bad for a s p i c. No affirmative action, and entrenched Old Boy network.

    The reaction in last night's show would be more appropriate to John F. Kennedy's assassination. Dr. King? Sorry to say it depends on your color and political persuasion.

    Mad Men shouldn't be changing the past. We have a lot to be ashamed of regarding our treatment of minorities.
     
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  7. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ken's my favorite.
     
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  8. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't think they were white washing it at all. I'm not quite sure how you're seeing that. Nothing in that episode suggested anything "pure or good" about anybody's reaction. There was dismay at how the nation was being dragged into further chaos, fear of urban rioting, discomfort at how to behave around African-American coworkers, along with some genuine distress that a national figure had been murdered.
     
  9. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The writers are hitting this note pretty hard -- maybe too hard? -- but you gotta the love uber-schmucken-freud that is Pete Campbell.

    He arranges a secret IPO that could make the partners millionaires, and it gets scuttled first by Don and then by his own wang. Plus -- even though he's clearly in the right when reading the riot act to Don -- he does it in front of the whole firm, freaking everybody out, and of course slipping on the stairs.

    Don, however, arranges a secret merger -- and wins Chevy.

    Plus: Don has an affair -- gets a best friend.
    Pete visits a brothel -- gets a divorce.
    Even the Ken Cosgrove theory of mutually assured destruction cannot save Pete from the Soviet annihilation of his father-in-law's rage. Because, of course, he's always hated Pete. How could you not?

    Pete can't even disgrace his father-in-law properly. Trudy will simply never believe him. Or choose not to, because he's Pete.

    This is of course ignoring all the horrendous Draperness of that episode. Which was epic in it's F.U.ness to the world.

    PS:
    Who else was on High Cringe Alert Red when Pete was eyeing and trying to further liquor-up a slightly tipsy Joan.

    The word shudder does not do that moment justice.
     
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  10. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Almost forgot my thematic gloat:
    Third product-free pitch: Chevy
    "Just faces and music... you don't even see the car. You run that for a week...."
     
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  11. Beirut

    Beirut Member+

    Feb 3, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Great episode. Best of season? Can't be. This is going to be very interesting..
     
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  12. Boogie_Down

    Boogie_Down Member+

    Jul 7, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That last episode packed a punch. Felt like a season finale.
     
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  13. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don has become the Zen Master. Next he will hit Pete and in particular Ginsberg.
     
  14. Boogie_Down

    Boogie_Down Member+

    Jul 7, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People are speculating that the Chevy car they are going for is the Vega. :laugh:
     
  15. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the exploding gas tank.

    Camaro.
     
  16. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Me! There was that horrible moment where you thought he might actually pull it off.
     
  17. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, it's the Vega. Camaro was already out for a few years by 68, and when Don gives the prototype model #, it was the Vega's.
     
  18. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh geez what a turkey. Glad they didn't pull this move with the Edsel in an earlier chronology.
     
  19. DAK77

    DAK77 Member+

    Nov 10, 2008
    Merion Village, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It took me a while to realize that the woman Don is having the affair with is the chick from Freaks and Geeks
     
  20. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I still know her as the monster who split up Cory and Topanga.
     
  21. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dr. King was not the national figure or the respected civil rights leader he became after his death. He should have been, but there was a general distrust of Dr. King by White America. That is why I state that Weiner applied 21st Century attitudes to 1968. I remember that day quite well. There was not the shock and sadness in the JFK assassination.

    As a side note, there were no riots in New York City following Dr. King's assassination. Washington, Louisville and some other cities yes. The only local rioting occurred in Newark that summer.
     
  22. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think what you're saying is pretty well known.

    And I don't think it applies to this episode. Liberal NYC professionals weren't symptomatic of all white Americans--the reaction among a small group of Manhattan professionals shouldn't represent "white America". And actually, that episode demonstrated how ambiguous most people's reactions were. You're arguing that most white Americans didn't deify the guy at the time--almost nobody in that episode did. What WAS common at the time was a fear of urban rioting and civil unrest. Pete, near the end, showed a genuine--and surprising--and passionate defense of King's legacy, but he was the only one. Most people were just...confused. Roger spoke for a lot (not ALL, probably not a majority, but a lot) of white Americans when he "Man knew how to talk--I thought that would save him." That's anything BUT the anachronistic hagiography you're describing. I just didn't see it.

    I don't think that episode said there was any rioting, did it? People were just nervous about the possibility, and jumpy about the slightest bit of possible unrest.
     
  23. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I only knew about the Pinto w/the exploding gas tank.
     
  24. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just finished watching the latest episode off of my HD-DVR.

    It was great to see Roger Sterling become truly relevant to the agency again for the first time in a while :), even though the airport scenes made me reminisce over last season's charming but prematurely-canceled ABC series Pan Am (though that show's only season took place in 1963). :(


    -G
     
  25. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here ya go Mr. Know it all.

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...aUfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VdYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2889,5682928

    Since you seem to know everything about that era. Just for your edification both the Pinto and the Vega were reported to have issues with the gas tank that could explode due to a lack of protection and framing around the back of the gas tank. Warning avoid being rear ended. The gas tank could explode. A big thanks to Ralph Nader that exposed many product liability issues.

    Once more with feeling. There was an audible gasp in the audience. Joan and some of the other women had looks of shock and duress. I don't think that is reasonable reaction. Stopping the event to permit folks to call home to report King was killed or to warn about riots. That's ridiculous. At that time there was no gentrification. White flight from inner cities to suburbs was still going strong. Unless you lived or owned a business near a black neighborhood you really had nothing to fear. Even if you took mass transit going on Metro North the only stop of consequence is 125th Street and several in the Bronx.

    If you are going to use the fact that New York City is a liberal enclave and it most certainly was and continues to be and this proves the characters were behaving as you might expect. You should remember that not all affluent people at the time would be liberals. Heck, that still holds true today. You should also remember that most people in that era, especially many affluent people with kids or planning families moved to the suburbs. Many moved to commuter suburbs like Ossinging and Rye New York (Westchester like Don and Betty) or Cos Cob (Connecticut like Pete). Also, these folks are members of the greatest generation. They are not baby boomers. Only the youngest characters in the series are boomers. That influences who they were and what their beliefs were. With the exception of Ginsberg; Joan, Peggy, Harry, heck all of the employees of Sterling Cooper Draper are not a baby boomers.

    I am reminded of my parents initial impressions of US society. First, people here were rude, Americans mistook being abrasive with speaking their minds and being honest. Lastly and most important they stated that America was a racist country. Too hung up on race and class.

    One last thing, okay I'll buy that Pete is a liberal and it was within character for him, but Pete's outburst had all to do with his feelings of isolation from his own family. He projected his fears and concerns on the fact Dr. King had a family and was murdered when Harry Crane was more concerned with the impact it might have on business.

    Like I said the whole thing rings false.
     

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