Luiz Adriano UCL Goal

Discussion in 'Referee' started by midmogooner, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. midmogooner

    midmogooner Member

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    I can't believe there has not been a thread about this yet. Here is a video (not sure how long it is going to stay available).



    I know the book answer: this is not a refereeing matter. Or is anyone advocating the use of inventive refereeing here: ITOOTR the ball was played before it touched the ground? What if this was a youth match, not a UCL game?


  2. Doug the Ref

    Doug the Ref Member

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    I cringe when teams want to show sportsmanshiop and play the ball back to the opponent. I'd much rather let the "receiving" team get the drop ball and play it back to themselves.
    chwmy repped this.
  3. DWickham

    DWickham Member

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    UEFA today announced that disciplinary proceedings have been opened against Adriano for "violation of the principles of conduct."
  4. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member

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    I don't think it would have mattered on this one. It wasn't the player that "dropped" the ball that pulled the dick move, it was his teammate. I agree with your sentiment though.


  5. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 BigSoccer Supporter

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    so why not just kick it out of bounds and let the other team take a throw-in???
  6. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

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    The missing thread is 'hidden' in the "I've got questions ..." thread, link below, starting at post 75. Since the story should have legs, I think a separate thread is a good idea.

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/ive-got-questions-youve-got-answers.770484/page-3

    The game thread, below, has many good posts from our Danish correspondent, Ceres.

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...dsjaelland-vs-shakhtar-donetsk-11-20.1978396/
  7. lemma

    lemma Member

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    There will always be a small number of misguided people suggesting that referees should play god and make some crap up, and they will always be wrong.

    This is not a problem for the referee to solve. Simple as that. From U6 up to the World Cup Final.
    uniqueconstraint, zahzah and BTFOOM repped this.
  8. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member

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    Referee can't do anything here.

    Coach should have pulled Adriano immediately both for his own protection and their own Karma as a team. If I were managing this team, he would never see the field again for the same reasons.

    If I'm captain of Shaktar, I talk to other captain, tell him to give me the ball on their kick off, score a goal on my own team, and we get on with the game.
  9. BTFOOM

    BTFOOM Member

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    Absolutely correct. The referee here did all he could do. Once the ball is put back in play, it is up to the players to follow the 'fair sportsmanship'.

    As an aside to the refs here, do you take these actions into account if a player from the aggrieved team gives the goal scorer a hard foul (ps. there are no assessors reading this, just wanted to get into the head of some of you refs) ;) ?
  10. NC Soccer United

    NC Soccer United BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    I'd punch the player in the locker room if he was my teammate, captain or not. Screw that, there is no honor by adriano.
  11. Barciur

    Barciur Member

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    It's interesting that UEFA charged him, though.
  12. bothways

    bothways Member

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    sheffield utd vs arsenal many years ago- marc overmars scored for arsn and steve bruce manage of sheff was irate. arsene wenger agreed to replay the game
    also this similar incident happened in an MLS game many years ago- defender kicks it back to keeper, attacker closes down goal keeper- handball is called on the attacker:) (true story) and everyone accepted the handball call, even though it hadn't happened
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm glad somebody else brought this up. Every time a play like this occurs, I start to bring up this MLS incident. But then I look for video or an account or the thread here, and I can never find it. But I'm 100% certain it did happen (not sure if "handling" was the invented call or not, but it was definitely an invented call). I'm 99% certain the referee was Ricardo Valenzuela. He got an immense amount of praise for how he dealt with the situation.

    Does anyone else recall the game or other particulars?

    EDIT: it looks like the thread on the match was deleted when we switched servers. We talked about the MLS play a little in a thread 3 years back, on the Norwegian league. Here's the link, but the subsequent links to the original thread are dead. Looks like it was a Chivas v Colorado game: http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...hat-would-you-do.1131715/page-2#post-18546448
    dadman repped this.
  14. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    That is a different issue than the ref -- as a referee, we need to enforce the LOTG. The competition authority has much more latitude for creativity.
    sjt8184 repped this.
  15. sjt8184

    sjt8184 Member

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    Exactly. The competition committee can order the game replayed, issue a suspension or fine or whatever else they want to do within their ROC. Its not our call as refs to force any remedy.
  16. Gio-13

    Gio-13 Member

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    That exactly what he did, Lucescu asked Srna to tell the team to concede a goal right away. But our young UCL debuting DMF Stepanenko didn't got that for some reason. But still Shakhtar deliberately concede afterwards within a short time.
  17. chwmy

    chwmy Member

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    Agreed! The ref can't remedy the result, but he does control the restart. If the ref drops the ball to shaktar, this doesn't happen.
  18. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member

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    Of course UEFA has more latitude but I'm not convinced that you can just separate the issue that easily. If UEFA find the player guilty doesn't that in turn undermine the referee and the LotG? Not to speak of how it undermines the integrity of the competition seeing as you then can legally win games by means that UEFA deems illegal.
  19. JimEWrld

    JimEWrld Member

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    I wouldn't concede necessarily.. In the group stage, it probably isn't as big of a deal, but what if this is the knockout and away goals matter? It is horribly unfortunate but not much the teams can do (except make sure the forward isn't killed) and absolutely nothing the ref can do.
  20. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

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    It is not much of a surprise really... UEFA is a "monster" that makes up it's own rules and regulations... the UEFA 'Fair-play' rankings may be a bit of a joke, but it is one of their pet projects, and as I have also written before, then for some reason they have especially used Scandinavia as a kind of role model that they have granted extra UEFA Cup/Europa league spots every single season, though not really revealing how they actually measure it, or why a Scandinavian country always seem to end on top in their fair-play rankings... in any case, Adriano made a mockery of their "fair-play" pet project and even doing against a Scandinavian side, so there is no way that he is going to escape being punished...

    If you don't remember, then the last time a Scandinavian side played Champions League the Barcelona goalkeeper was punished with a two-match ban by UEFA, because he faked a referee whistle when København striker Cesar Santin had the chance of a one-on-one with the keeper, but gave up the chase when the keeper faked the whistle and in this way motioned to him that the assistant referee had waved him off-side... my guess is, that Adriano is getting a 3-match ban, no matter what he or Shakhtar are going to say in his defense.
    .
  21. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

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    Nonsense... that is their own silly bogus explanation, trying to cover up their poor judgment... you have clearly not watched the goal...
    .
  22. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

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    Here's a funny example of a mistake being corrected immediately ...

    http://www.wimp.com/accidentallyscores/

    Shakhtar's 'concession' contrasts starkly with this one.
    MCF101 and dadman repped this.
  23. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

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    So you are saying that the coaching staff have no real control over the players... that is bogus ... perhaps you should read the FC Nordsjælland coach take on the matter :

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...ar-donetsk-11-20.1978396/page-2#post-26813934

    ....he was especially not pleased by how the Shakhtar coaches were acting, and neither was Michael Laudrup who has mainly blamed the Shakhtar coach for this scandal.
    .
  24. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    that this example of yours is on a site named wimp.com says it all.......

    kidding, just couldnt resist. carry on :)
  25. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

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    I don't understand why everyone seems to think the referee could do nothing to stop this after he dropped the ball to restart play. He absolutely could have done something -- once he saw what was developing, he could have brought play back, for whatever reason he wanted, and dropped the ball again. Or, seeing what the Shaktar had done to take possession of the ball and start trying to score a goal, he could have cautioned the player for unsporting behavior. The Laws of the Game list "acts in a manner which shows a lack of respect for the game" as one of the types of Unsporting Behavior.

    In my view, this is congruent with UEFA charging the player with "violation of the principles of conduct."

    After all, Valenzuela got a ton of respect for doing what he did to prevent a similar goal from being scored in an MLS match many years ago, as MassRef mentioned earlier in the thread.

    The comments from the FC Nordsjælland coach in the other thread are spot on.

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