Losing the League, the Cup, Europe and Karloski - The David Moyes Thread

Agreed. A true professional would have refused to work under Moyes, irrespctive of the flak from the fickle fan, and had him sacked months ago.

 

Man, you're like a Stark. I guess you haven't lived long enough.

If the players had a major part to play in him getting the sack they are heroes.

 

Strikes me as bollocks. A bunch of unsourced anecdotes, probably skewed if not outright fiction.

It also doesn't tackle how and why such dissention may have arose. If Ferdinand and RVP didn't care for Moyes, it might have something to do with the deer in the headlights fashion of much of his tenure. From the second he opened his mouth as manager, he just felt out of his depth.

I'm tired of these efforts to turn things on the players. Moyes looked ****ing useless early on and I was all for giving him time until one thing after another just killed any belief.

If he's killing my belief as a spectator, think about what it might be like being a player who has gone from competing on all fronts to observing tactical ineptitude in the guy yiu have to take orders from.

I didn't see a lack of effort in those games. I saw a lack of belief and a bunch of defenders struggling to get the ball out of the back, probably because Moyes had them playing a deep line. I also saw no moves to change that.

If Ferdinand didn't like him, perhaps it was because after being on a highly publicised regime of spreading out playing time and managing fitness, he was pretty much played into the ground in the early games.

If RVP didn't like him, it's probably because he observed some whiney brat who he had outperformed last season spit his dummy out as a result, only to be accommodated by Moyes at every turn as a result.

If Shinji didn't like him, it might be because despite being a key player in one of the best attacks in Europe two years prior, Moyes claimed he needed to have him in camp longer after returning from national team duty before affording him playing time.

The sh*t we all observed here, the players saw close up. If he genuinely commanded that little respect with his actions, then it's right that he's gone. None of these seniour players had shown these issues in the past.

Except of course Rooney, who Moyes promptly rewarded.

 

We are going to see many such stories in the next few weeks I think. Fergie is not the manager now, and will not be stomping this stuff out. Giggs is likely of a mind to let it all come out, as it takes the pressure of him, and I suspect he is not the biggest fan of Moyes either.

I think that's quite right. We dont know the half of it, and how bad he was, and likely how 24/7 bad its been for the players. Ex-players often talk about training and the daily routine of a footballer, and how the match is the most significant, but tiny part of the working week. These guys have been living and breathing Moyes and his brain's trust ineptitude 24/7, 7 days a week for 10 months. I am sick to death of his incompetence, and I only have to put up with him a few hours a week. Many stories have leaked about his training methods which are straight from the 1950s, just like his tactics. Its no wonder the players revolted.

It was such a comedy of errors to appoint Moyes in this respect. We are among the last bastion of manager power in all of club football. The club where players had less power than elsewhere, and Fergie reigned supreme. The problem with that model is that you actually need a manager who knows what the hell he is doing. If you dont, then you are far worse off than a more modern club structure (with all its weaknesses) who has the same exact crap manager. If the manager has ultimate power and has no clue, in any area (Moyes was astoundingly bad in a truly surprising large number of areas), then the whole structure of the club falls apart.

More than which manager we get, what the club need to do now is think about what management structure we are going to have. For the next manager, and into the future.

 

Well, let's see if Giggsy can impress. He might be the next SAF. That's what these last group of games is about. To see if he can hold the reigns.

 

Giggs always seemed a bit too much about Giggs to me.

Why are British managers so bad? I assumed that US managers/players weren't up on the latest tactics & stuff because we didn't live & breathe soccer here. They do. So why aren't managers with tactical knowledge all over the place?

Seems like the same old clueless boys just rotate thru the PL teams. Nobody new comes in unless it's from somewhere else.

 

Obviously no clue how much of those anecodotes is truth vs. exaggeration or outright fiction, but I'll say that while the players were surely wholly right in not liking Moyes or respecting him, they're still professionals, and they should act like it. We've all had bosses we don't like or don't respect, and we all grit our teeth and bare it. I'm as happy as anyone that Moyes is gone, but if those stories are true they reflect very poorly on the players in my eyes.

 

Triple rep.

 

Not me and certainly not one as incompetent as Moyes. You have to lack self respect to do that.

 

Depends how you vent your frustration.

 

Sure. Going and telling the owners (or the main boss) that it is either him or you is what I would do and have done.

No point wasting everyone's time.

 

We have a history of being arrogant and insular, especially the FA.

In fact, it's only relatively recently they were racist, boycotting international and European competitions with a member of the FA declaring he had no interest in getting involved with a bunch of "w--s and d----s".

I'm sure you can fill the blanks.

We still ignore developments in the game despite them becoming routine elsewhere. Then wonder why our national team is crap.

 

Van Gaal = Strootmanpalooza......(even though he's hurt, waiting for the links)

 

What a f**king idiot!

 

To play devils advocate here he is sort of right, the manner in which Moyes was sacked was a cluster********, but I just put that down to lack of practice.

 

whoa stop stop. i am responding to this without listening to the video as I am not able to do so whre i am currently.

BUT, Glazers must bear some of the blame. not usre if this dude is thinking along the same lines as me but here is why: they went out and got an individual ill suited for the job. THEY signed off on this. Everything else is just cherry picking. Did we all not see this coming? I am at a computer thousands of miles away and I saw it. How come they couldnt? Putting someone in a position to fail and then blaming them solely must circle back to the original decision.

 

This is so stupid. Who the hell cares if:

a) "It's the players' fault"?
b) The sacking was "unprofessional"?

a) Bottom line: if the coach fails to get the players up and ready the coached failed. It doesn't really matter why. The insubordination never would have happened under Mourinho/Fergie/Van Gaal b/c they have the balls and the guile to cut the rot before it spreads. All the talk about how "decent" Moyes was really illustrates the problem: players didn't respect him or even fear him. A good leader gets his charges to do what he wants by whatever means necessary - he threatens, cajoles, punishes, tricks, rewards, manipulates, etc to get them to do what he wants. Not the other way around. See #Mourinho, #Fergie, #VanGaal, etc... The fact that none of these guys would ever be described as "decent" goes a long way to describing why they are good coaches...

b) A firing is a firing. It sucks. It hurts and it's damaging (in the short run) for everybody involved. No other team on the planet (Arsenal potential exception) would have tolerated the patently obvious disaster for as long as Manchester U did. I think the level of patience that was shown makes up for the "firing by twitter". I think other managers will -still- believe that they have a chance for a long-term tenure at the club in the future given how long Moyes was given to flounder. That's really all that matters.

All that matters is that it's time to moveon.org

 

The man was given months more than any other major club would have given him.

So all these people who find this "disappointing" or "unprofessional" can F right off.

Electing to go on vacation instead of doing some homework and hitting the ground running in July, was pretty unprofessional if you ask me.