Liverpool v. Newcastle (r)

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Rufusabc, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

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    Sendoff of Magpie defender was signaled by AR who the confirmed it was red. They had iso camera on him. And surprisingly, there appeared to be no contact on play, but it most certainly was red. Late in game tackle on Suarez.

    Also, i saw something i had never seen before in this match. A close in ceremonial dfk was being set up. It was a Newcastle kick. As the GK for Liverpool was attempting to set his wall, his sightline was being blocked on purpose by a Newcastle attacker who was mimicking the GK's movements. To his credit, the referee came down and put a stop to that nonsense.


  2. code1390

    code1390 Member

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    Good work by AR and Taylor. Had to be a red.
  3. iron81

    iron81 Member+

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  4. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

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    Iron....if that leg connects, Suarez ends up with his broken. You heard of the definition of "attempt" right? Well, there it is. That's a bona fide straight red. 83 minute of the match.
    Chas (Psyatika) repped this.


  5. uniqueconstraint

    uniqueconstraint Member

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    I dunno, no attempt to play the ball whatsoever - what other intent would there be other than to injure? I tend to agree with the straight red.

    For what it's worth Pardew is considering an appeal but stated he has no problem with the send-off:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-red-card-for-fabricio-coloccini-8281323.html
  6. iron81

    iron81 Member+

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    His intent was to mark Suarez, but he was surprised that Suarez passed with his first touch. This threw Coloccini off balance and led to the awkward tackle. His leg ending up where it did was him trying to recover to chase the ball. Note Coloccini putting him arms up to brace for the collision. No I from SIAPOA.

    If you're saying Coloccini attempted to kick Suarez, then yes, intent is required. The refs bought the injury simulation and assumed there was heavy contact to Suarez's calf.
  7. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

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    You are out of your mind. One guy is from Uruguay, the other from Argentina. The AR was within feet so there was no simulation. If he connects, it's a broken leg. Coloccini's intent was to put him out of the game. Sorry, you are so wrong on this it beggars belief.
  8. billf

    billf Member+

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    If you were watching the whole game and not seeing that play in isolation you'd see the red there. Suarez was killing Newcastle at that point and had resorted to trying to foul and intimidate him instead. That was the last in a series of such situations and I think Coloccini's intent there was pretty clear. He went in high and Suarez luckily moved before the foot came through.
  9. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member

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    This.
    Rufusabc repped this.
  10. Chas (Psyatika)

    Chas (Psyatika) Member

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    Intent is NOT required! This MUST be red.

    I used this block of text such a short while ago that it's still in my clipboard! ATR, page 46:
    Except for a handling offense, it is not necessary for the player’s action to be considered “deliberate” in the sense that the player intentionally set out to kick, push, trip, hold or otherwise foul the opponent. If that were so, the referee would have to be capable of reading a player's mind. Under Law 12, the referee makes a decision based upon what he or she sees a player actually do—the result of the player’s action—not upon what might be in the player's mind. (Emphasis ATR's not mine)

    Regardless of the defender's intent, what you actually see is Coloccini come from several yards away, bring his leg up in a winding up motion, expose his cleats, and direct them at the player's calf long after the ball has been played away from that area. A skilled referee must see this as endangering the safety of an opponent, which results in a send off (see ATR pg 61, 12.33). Attempting to kick with excessive force carries the same penalty as actually kicking with excessive force.

    With the benefit of slow motion replay, you can also note that Coloccini does not look towards the ball as it's being kicked away, but instead continues looking at Suarez. As he swings his foot at Suarez, he looks up and toward the touch line, totally opposite to where the ball is at that point.
    code1390 repped this.
  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    But what does "attempt" mean? How about, from Merriam-Webster, " to make an effort to do, accomplish, solve, or effect." We can infer the attempt from what the player does, but an attempt, by definition, has an element of seeking to accomplish something. (C.f., PIADAM: a recklessly high foot does not become an "attempt to kick," even though it woudl be a "kick" if contact is made -- it becomes a cuation and an IFK.)

    (But you don't have to eviscerate the meaning of the word attempt to get to a red and a DFK ion this case. Tackling an opponent with excessive force does just fine.)
  12. JimEWrld

    JimEWrld Member

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    You don't mark someone by coming in cleats up and following through the players back. Saurez is very lucky that Coloccini missed. And the "threw him off balance" is absolute bs. The first time I saw this foul, I knew it was going to be red and the referee was very justified in pulling it. Ridiculous tackle.
  13. Alberto

    Alberto Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, that is it. Suarez was lucky, that kind of plancha usually breaks legs or tears tendons and ligaments.

    Good work by the referee and his assistant.
  14. Chas (Psyatika)

    Chas (Psyatika) Member

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    In that example, at least the person PIADM is actually going for the ball (unlike Coloccini). If he completes the same flying foot action while the ball is 4 yards away and moving away from him (like Coloccini), then that swing and miss is, indeed, going to be called VC.

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