I've always liked Martinez - charming, intelligent, gets his teams to play attractive football, and seems to have a pretty good eye for (cheap) talent. And I agree that past success, even on the biggest of stages, is not an indicator of future success, and that managers can come out of nowhere to lead their team to glory. But there's just something about Martinez that doesn't strike me as the guy I want leading the club. Maybe it's a (perceived) lack of ruthlessness; he's a very nice guy, by all accounts. He just doesn't strike me as someone who's ready for the big stage, or ready to lead a big club to a title challenge or Champions League glory. FWIW, he does seem rather unflappable and a pretty cool customer, despite the harrowing position Wigan always seems to be in. I'll certainly back him if he's the guy but before hearing his name on the short list, I never would have even considered him for the job.
Martinez has done good things in his career. He plays big club football when he could easily play small club football. His teams improve over the course of the year. He plays a style we teach at the academy. There are a lot of reasons to pick him. The inexperience at a big club is a concern, but with the proper front office support, he could work.
He's under no pressure at Wigan though. Three consecutive 16th place finishes shows the ambition Whelan has. When you have won 34 games out of a possible 127 and its considered a success of course you're going to be able to play how you want it will be an entirely different prospect at Anfield. In his 3 years they have been eliminated 4 times by lower league opposition in the domestic cups anf the only times they've faced top flight opposition they've been beaten. As I know so little about him as a manager, though he was a cracking player, I can only compare him against the people he's replaced or who have replaced him. Bruce managed to get Wigan 11th and 14th while Rodgers has done much, much better with Swansea. The reason why I think he's likely to get the job is that the owners don't want a big personality in managers job. Someone like Rafa, Kenny or even Houllier who is going to want to be in sole charge of major decisions and start their own 'projects'. They want someone who's both a team player and easily replaceable who others can come afterwards and build on like Emery at Valencia or even dear old Roy Evans for us.
David Bolt has pontificated that Liverpool should not rehire Benitez. To me, that means Rafa is the only person that should be considered. Anybody with me???
If he told me my hair was on fire and suggested a bucket of water, I'd seek out the nearest petrol station. There are pros and cons for Rafa and we're probably all well versed in them, so it's not necessary to go through them in detail. One point is worth pulling out for more discussion though, I think. I suggest that talk of his inability to work in the structure FSG appear to want is overblown. For one, he's familiar with the set-up from his time in Spain. Secondly, he would hardly be coming into it blind or without detailed discussions of remit and domain. And finally, the year or so out of the game may well have given this famously reflective man time to work through one or two of the things on his side of the equation that undeniably hindered his performance at Liverpool in the last season and at Inter after that. As far as I am concerned, he would be perfectly willing and able to work in that structure. What people forget is that, during his last 18 months at LFC it wasn't about control per se, it was about control of that situation. If I had the likes of Purslow slithering about in the background - and Tweedledum and Tweedledee behind him! - then I'd want total control of everything written into my contract too. There is actually little to suggest that he would not be content in a structure of the kind foreseen for Liverpool now, assuming he had a) control of everything that goes on between those white lines and on the training ground b) confidence that the owners will back him and the DoF team with money and time.
As to Martinez, there's an undeniable "flavour of the month" thing going on. His last 8 weeks have been nothing short of miraculous. I know that in each of the preceding two seasons he also eventually avoided the relegation he was leading Wigan toward, but this last one was spectacular. Lose the Liverpool, United and Arsenal games and Whelan is in the press telling us how he's sticking by his man in the Championship, not how he's the best manager in the world and he knew that a big club would come calling eventually. That's not to deny Martinez credit - they didn't lose to Liverpool, United and Arsenal, after all - they beat the lot. But if Dalglish had been given the boot in, say, February (when Wigan were 20th with 19 points from 25 games and 4 wins all season) and someone had popped up and started telling the world what a fab manager Martinez would make for Liverpool, he'd have been fucking sectioned. Or just left to continue posting here under the screen name of Frosty. The credit Martinez gets is cheap, it's easy. He's doing OK with insignificant Wigan. Every year he entertains the media with run-in escapology. And even if he takes them down, no one is minded to do him, because, well, he's a nice man and it's only Wigan. That's not to say the credit is entirely unmerited - he does try to get his team to play an open, positive brand of football. Even if this means results rarely match performances (hang on a minute ...). He is also very clearly a nice man who inspires great affection and loyalty in his players. And he's young. Plus, he's settled in English football: the thing with this whole "FSG want a young, committed manager for a long-term project" thing that doesn't really gel well with, for instance, Andrea Villas-Boas, is that if the project goes well for a season or two, he's as likely to be off to a big Spanish or Italian club as he is to remain committed to Liverpool. Especially as "goes well" will be relative in our terms. Martinez, by contrast, probably would be long, long-term if things worked out. Thing is, there's no guarantee they will. Chances are, next season will be pretty underwhelming too, irrespective of who is manager. And there is little logic in denying Dalglish another year to sort it out if we're OK with someone else going no further than "better but still not brilliant". Which, by extension, means the underlying expectation is that the next appointment will work out really well indeed - and soon. In that light ... Martinez? Hell of a gamble.
The idea of Martinez fills me with the dread of realization that the owners of the club thought (and still think) that they can gain an extensive knowledge of football and all her intricacies by reading a few books, watching a few games and speaking to a few people that might or might not know the game. This in my not so worthy opinion as a lifelong fan of Liverpool will be a terrible mistake. Just as Hodgson was out of his depth moving from mid-table turnaround clubs to LFC, so too will Martinez be out of his depth and Liverpool, I believe, will suffer. It's not about his past or his resume, they are all fine I am sure, quite impressive for Wigan for sure; but it certainly feels like we lowered our sights dramatically. Is it really that difficult to attract a top manager to LFC now? The new owners should be held just as accountable for that in the same way they held Dalglish accountable for it. To me it feels like the owners are looking to him to start again, build a new team, something they can call their own, built in their image. Problem is I like the Liverpool I know, and I want a manager of serious credibility to get us back to where we belong, someone who can lead us, not just motivate us half way through the season to beat a few big teams in 'this is our chance to show them lads' moments. I don't want someone to hold hands with.
I'm not sure that stacks up. Ultimately, the mentality here is the same as it is for the notion of signing an underrated player. Someone young, unproven or undervalued. We shouldn't consider the signing of a manager from a smaller team an indictment of our ambition per se. It could be a very shrewd bit of business. This isn't (or shouldn't be) about the club from where Martinez would come. It's about whether or not he's the best available bet in a gamble on an unproven manager. It's on that basis that I have my doubts. Put simply, if you lay his commitment to a certain way of playing aside and look just at his record, it's not that impressive. There are only so many times you can be given credit for not getting relegated before you either are relegated or people start wondering whether you might be part of the reason why your team is in an annual relegation dogfight.
He's certainly a gamble, yes. If I were looking for positives in his favour, I'd argue that succeeding at a club like Porto, where the expectations domestically are as immense as anything one might encounter in the English game, stands him in good stead. To repeat that success at European level also speaks well of his ability as a tactician and leader of a team - when the circumstances are right (as they clearly weren't at Chelsea and may well not be at Liverpool). But he's definitely a gamble. Fact is, anyone is a gamble. Facile thing to say, obviously. What we don't know is how hard FSG want to gamble. The signs are mixed. Getting rid of KD suggested impatience for immediate, moderate, success. The top four. The rumoured interest in Capello (plus, possibly, Benitez) corroborate this. For the next few years at least, they're arguably looking to play it as safe as one feasibly can under the circumstances. Say, until the stadium project is finally off the ground. Set a focus on the top four and the associated revenue, give the club a bit of stability, continue to build the commercial platform. That also makes us a more attractive proposition for the next tier up from Martinez et al when we go out looking for the long-term manager. Or perhaps they're far bolder than we presume. Perhaps they're ready to stake their credibility, as well as their money and patience, on the long-term vision now. I have my doubts, but the reality is that no one can really second-guess what's going on here.
While I'm not suggesting for a minute that Martinez, AVB or whoever else comes in is the next Shankly, but below are some interesting quotes from the Shanks Wiki page which draw some parallels between where LFC was when Shanks came in and where we find ourselves today. Several years outside the top flight (CL in our case), Anfield in need of upgrades, squad burdened with average player, but potential in the reserves.
Yeah, with the CL money reportedly doubling over the next few years, we may not have time for that long term project as the gap will continue to get bigger.
So I'm back on the boards. Don't get too excited. I like Roberto Martinez. But I also liked Roy Hodgson. I would rather see us go for a manager who knows what it takes to succeed in domestic league competition. Not necessarily the Premier League (because there aren't that many managers out there). Our manager situation is similar to our player similar situation. Do we want a manager that can help us do well, or do we want a manager that can help us achieve the best. Just like, do we want players that are "average" or do we want players that can win us matches. That's a whole other discussion.
They should just sell the Red Sox and use the money to fund Liverpool's transfer policy for the next 5-10 years.
Maybe I'm looking at a very limited sample, but it seems like the choice of #2 is almost as important as the manager. Ray Wilkins was apparently a key part of Ancelotti's success at Chelsea, and Queiroz helped transform ManU from a team that was too naive to win in Europe to one that made 3 finals in 5 years (?). Rijkaard hasn't done squat without Ten Cate. And the Clarke appointment was an inspired choice to help KK ease back into management.
Case in point, no one knows what exactly they want. They're sending mixed signals and their behavior only reinforces that. At this point I have no idea what their plan is for the club going forward. That's the truly troubling part. Just exactly what is the time table here anyways? 2-3 years of experimenting and allowing a new face to build the club back up or immediate success with a veteran? Or a mixture of both? And then what is the extent of their support in that project? That uncertainty is worse than any prospective appointment. If there is no plan in place or a real understanding how to go about things then just what the hell is in store for this club?
I don't know about that. Just because you or I can't discern the long-term plan and the timetable from the little that we know and some journalistic speculation doesn't mean they don't have one. In fact, if you look at the names that are known publicly and seem to be more than speculative - AVB, Martinez, Rodgers, Klopp, De Boer - it seems pretty clear that they want this to be a long-term project, and that the managers contacted fit in with that profile.
Speaking of "time table", do Fenway have a set date for when the new manager will be announced? I'd hope/think that by the end of this month, no?
Yes he was. Bring back Valero for Pepe and a team of Begiristain, Segura, Martinez, Pako, Valero and Borrell is pretty solid, imo.
Not sure that is the case. AVB, Rodgers and De Boer all had instant success. It seems thats what they are looking for not someone to take on a long term project.