Lemont Raiders U17B

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by aek chicago, May 16, 2012.

  1. SheHateMe

    SheHateMe Member

    Feb 14, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, when clubs like the Fire can pull from Fire Jr programs around the country and play kids from other states like Mississippi, that is not even a regional team anymore. Hard to compare all-star teams like that vs teams made up of truly local kids. Not sure its even fair to compare.
     
  2. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    By the way, I've reffed Gallagher, Thunder and Wolves.....and seen Vardar. Lemont can play with any of them. Not sure why people think there's such a big jump between Lemonts level and Academy play. Most people agree Lemonts starters are all acdemy level. So why wouldn't they be able to compete? I'm certainly not saying that Lemont would roll through Academy programs like its doing at youth regionals now, nor that they would be a top tier academy side, but to intimate that they can't play at that level (solely based on the fact that they HAVEN'T played at that level) is patently absurd. It reeks of sour grapes and petty envy.

    Thats one of the problems I have with youth soccer in this country. People are so caught up in labels, classifications, rankings, etc....that they forget to actually observe what's happening on the field. Or maybe they couldn't tell you whats happening on the field even if they WERE watching.

    Take the respective jerseys off the aforementioned teams, remove the academy and non academy labels, and then have a nuetral, disinterested and qualified party observe and evaluate. I'm fairly certain not much of a distinction would be drawn between Lemont and the academy sides.
     
  3. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Harsh but true. Yes, you can play only those who you are scheduled to play.
     
  4. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    No, what I'm saying is that they all suck, including the Academy sides. However, some teams suck a little bit less than others. And those teams are usually from the Academy.

    There is a lot of bad soccer at the highest youth level, for both boys and girls. But that is not the worse part.....you know what is the worse part? Parents buy that :poop:
     
  5. SheHateMe

    SheHateMe Member

    Feb 14, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Parents buy that because the lazy college coaches who don't go out and see players anymore buy that. Much easier to take your pick of the academy players.
     
  6. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    The "lazy" college coaches don't have much choice as all "fruits" are "rotten", more or less. Plus, most of the college coaches are just like the high level youth coaches - they all think they can make a soccer player out of every athletic kid.
     
  7. UofIneedssoccer

    Nov 3, 2009
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Agree to disagree no sour grapes I think you are wrong
     
  8. chitownseadog

    chitownseadog Member

    Dec 21, 2006
    there is no doubt that there are lots of kids who are not playing academy that are certainly good enough and on the flip side there those who are actually playing with the DA's who make you scratch your head and go huh? As for teams we just wont know if some of the top club teams can beat DA teams but I am 99.99% certain that some could. Its not that far fetched to think that the overflow of talent in a Chicago or LA or Detroit could produce teams that coud be competitve with some of the DA's.
     
  9. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    They are the best group of U17 players outside of DA?

    Better?
     
  10. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Wow :eek:
     
  11. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    And what if some club teams beat some DA teams? What difference does it make who beats who?
     
  12. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    "Wow" indeed.....
     
  13. chitownseadog

    chitownseadog Member

    Dec 21, 2006
    who said it makes a difference? we get it, unless players or teams are up to your standard they suck.
     
  14. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Then why all the fuss? And that's right, I have standards. Can't say the same for many other people.....
     
  15. chitownseadog

    chitownseadog Member

    Dec 21, 2006
    Not fuss but discussion. Your "sucks" comment just showed arrogance and is coming from until proven otherwise ignorance when it comes to soccer ( other than the mindless drivel that is the rage right now with Barca and Spain). You have kids playing right? Please Please keep us informed with their progress and how they are measuring up to your standards. So many kids are out there enjoying the game, playing their hearts out training,learning,winning, losing but doing it out of love for the game and you can just dismiss them because they havent reached the level you deem worthwhile or play the way you want them to play. So you can talk the talk but pretty much everyone on here knows you dont know much about whats actually happening .
     
  16. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    You call this discussion? Looks more like "d*ck measuring" contest. All the talk is about who won, who lost, who will beat who, who is better based on wins/losses.......meanwhile none of these kids play good soccer that one can enjoy watching......for their ages.....

    Yes, I have kids playing......I'm not gonna brag about them or their teams, because it's pointless. I'm not like the rest of you here as a parent who lives my life through my children. I'm just happy my kids are learning the right things about the game and how to play it, from their coaches and from me. I know there are a lot of kids out there who work hard and love the game. I don't dismiss them. My "sucks" comment was more directed towards how these kids (at high youth level) are taught to play the game by their coaches and winning doesn't mask that away. It's not the kids' fault.........it's their coaches who teach them to play crappy soccer and their parents who brag about wins and have pointless "discussions" on forums....and they are paying to be BS'ed by the above mentioned coaches.

    FYI, I've played, I've coached, I'm a parent and my standards are not that high or anything special. In fact, my standards are pretty basic. I've been around youth soccer for 10 years now and I know exactly what's actually happening. I've seen plenty of hard-working, talented kids, who were ruined by these fake coaches and/or their nutty parents. You see a kid who plays good soccer when he is 10 years old, then you see him 5 years later after he has moved to one of these "big clubs" with lots of "good" training, "high profile" coaches, traveling all over the country, competing at the "best" competitions (leagues, tournaments), "winning" and all kinds of other crap.......when it's all said and done, that boy is playing worse than he was when he was 10, despite the fact that the kid was talented and hard-working. And for that, the parents have paid close to 10k......In some worse cases, the kid has lost the love for the game and it's "tired" from all this crap. Meanwhile, the clubs have made their money, coaches have gotten paid, they've raised their profiles.

    Look at all the "big clubs" websites.....all they do is brag about how many titles they've won, which team won such and such tournament, where they are ranked, etc. None of them say or show how their teams play or train (in the form of video), what is their standard of play, playing/coaching philosophy, player/coach selection criteria, etc.

    Youth soccer in US is about selling wins, trophies and scholarships. It's not about setting and improving standards of play, of coaching and of developing quality....as it should be. There are very very very few exceptions to this "reality".
     
  17. redandyellow

    redandyellow New Member

    Jul 2, 2012
    Actually, good point about the fact that titles are emphasized (nothing wrong with title but training well even more important)on the websites without video etc onhow they train- we have a son who plays youth soccer- started getting high level technical training from really technical coach on the side as our boy geting more
    serious, what struck me is that this training is in many ways totally different then what he's learned at travel club over last few years for the most part, and so much better- makes club seem more like a fitness session then actual technical learning- top three clubs in Il seem to have more of a technical focus in training for the most part (of course there are other good coaches outside I these clubs trying their best within the system to teach) - but still there is too much focus on winning to please parents etc
     
  18. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    So do your kids fall in the suck category or were they pushed to DA while they were in 3rd grade?

    Nice generalization above BTW.
     
  19. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    My sons will be U9 and U13 in the Fall. The older one was with the Fire for a while, but now both play for the local community club. I'm finding that more and more community clubs have coaches who care more about teaching the right stuff, developing players and playing good soccer than winning trophies like "top" coaches do at higher reputation clubs. Another reason why my older one is not with the Fire anymore is the driving distance. There is no point in driving that far, when my boys can get same or better quality coaching near by, locally.

    Do they fall in the "suck" category? Their coaches and I do not think so. I'm not saying that my kids are world-beaters, but they do know how to play good soccer. I'm not sure if they will play DA, as I'm not too thrilled by any high level youth soccer at the older age groups. Maybe they will, if they want to, if they are selected, if it's "free".....and when they are old enough to drive themselves to practices.:)
     
  20. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Boy, you seem to have an axe to grind...and have ruined a perfectly good thread in the process.

    While I agree with quite a few points you have made, your underlying premise that all these teams and players "suck" is preposterous and patently absurd. For the most part, the academy teams/players represent the creme de la creme of Illinois soccer. In a talent rich state like Illinois, to make such a claim is absolutely ridiculous.

    While I agree that there are quite a few flaws with the present player development system in this country, to make sweeping generalizations like you do and throw EVERYBODY under the bus is highly irresponsible. There's quite a difference between having a problem with the player development system in place and saying everybody in the system "sucks".
     
  21. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Boy, you seem to have an axe to grind...and have ruined a perfectly good thread in the process.

    While I agree with quite a few points you have made, your underlying premise that all these teams and players "suck" is preposterous and patently absurd. For the most part, the academy teams/players represent the creme de la creme of Illinois soccer. In a talent rich state like Illinois, to make such a claim is absolutely ridiculous.

    While I agree that there are quite a few flaws with the present player development system in this country, to make sweeping generalizations like you do and throw EVERYBODY under the bus is highly irresponsible. There's quite a difference between having a problem with the player development system in place and saying everybody in the system "sucks".
     
  22. illinisoccer

    illinisoccer Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    Looks like the raiders and galaxy will play in the first game at national. That is a bummer as one will likely knock the other out. Wish they could have been given a chance to avoid each other until the finals
     
  23. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Agreed!

    As far as local community clubs vs big clubs, what Yonko states is quite the opposite out here. In fact most parents allow themselves to be taken by community clubs with terrible coaches for $1500-$2000 per year. They win a D division and celebrate as if they won the World Cup because the parents have no clue the level of play at B and A divisions where their champs would get destroyed.

    These clubs play in the weakest region as well (northwest) so even if their kids makes it to an A team they are still not playing good soccer - and generally get stuffed in State Cup - even as diluted as it is today, in the first round... "Oh but what a season - we played in State Cup"

    I know all these clubs very well and they are stealing the $$$ from seriously ignorant parents who just want to put a club sticker on the window of their minivan.

    There is one new club out here who is starting at costs that range from $165-$550 per season - includes a uniform. The coaches lack club training experience but have managed to get D and C teams to win divisions. They may not produce the States best teams but they are a realistic alternative to the lower ranks that the community clubs are running for thousands of dollars with lousy coaches.

    My oldest is in high school - saw the best and worst of community and big clubs and is just a player having fun with the game. She made varsity at an extremely weak school. My youngest started at 5 with Sockers in Palatine - I could not be happier with the coaches, program and players. Wish we would have gone that route years ago with my older one.

    We've played with the Magic as well - some great memories and we worked with some great coaches but as a business I don't think they have a clue what to do. And they could care less about girls which is why their best team this season is history moving forward.

    Have fun at the Eclipse ladies!

    So I get what Yonko is saying - you need to find the best fit. With girls its easy because there are only two choices in our neck of the woods - as long as you get them in at an early age - if they WANT to play and if you have a schedule that enables you to get them to practices etc...

    At u10 it becomes more difficult to navigate through the clubs out there which can be a costly experience. Most are just a complete waste of time and money.
     
  24. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Perfectly good thread?:rolleyes:



    I didn't say everyone in the system "sucks".....And I will admit that "sucks" was perhaps a little too harsh....let's say a lot of the high level teams being discussed are far from what truly high level youth soccer should look like.
     
  25. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    From previous conversations I know your area and I would agree that the community coaching in your area may not be that good. But in my area it is IMO.

    And winning D division is as pointless as winning any upper division or State Cup or Regionals, etc. None of them is winning the World Cup.



    Sounds just like some bigger clubs to me.....


    So parents will be attracted to these winning teams, especially when the cost is no more than $600 per season.



    I think it's difficult for both girls and boys.


    There doesn't always have to be a need to navigate the clubs. Parents always seem to think the grass is greener somewhere else, but it really isn't that greener.
     

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