I have family from NH who lives in the area, boston sports fans, always head out to san diego and LA when their team are there. A very very transient population, it just doesnt make sense, it would be mostly away support every single game. if i was a LV sports fan in that case i'd get sick of that after a couple years and just stay home. How in Gods name is LV more viable than Phoenix???
I'm not saying that LV is more viable than Phoenix . . . I personally think Phoenix would be an excellent candidate city. But I do think Las Vegas is also a viable candidate for other reasons that I think overcome the ones originally covered by SportBilly: - No other top division professional sports teams in any of the other 4 leagues (NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB), so Soccer would be a major attraction right away without having to fight for media coverage and headlines on and off the Sports page. - A transient population that travels TO the city on a regular basis; Las Vegas is the number 1 city destination in the United States. Most come for gambling, shows, and conventions . . . some have extra time on their hands and look for other activities too. - International appeal; What international team wouldn't want to add a trip to Las Vegas in as part of their US tour? - Warmer weather in the months when other parts of the country are much colder. Translates to starting the season earlier (March/April) with home games then also going later (Sept./Oct.) with home games. Summer months would be late night starts like 10:00 PM or 11:00 PM (who goes to be before 12 midnight in Vegas??) if outdoors, or if an indoor stadium is built the heat factor will be less of an obstacle. - Traditionally a very good youth soccer market both from the area and as a travel destination for tournaments by travel teams from several Western States - Population with a large percentage of 1st and 2nd generation hispanic or latino origin. Not always a perfect marker, but if managed carefully could be a huge asset towards long term success. - Excellent support by city adminstration and Mayor's office to bring professional sports to Las Vegas in the near future. Let's have Soccer be the first! Las Vegas is always worth consideration in MLS future expansion.
the truth is that they are big enough and well 'flashy enough' that MLS would take it with the right package. 1. huge money ownerships willing to spend on stars 2. a pretty new SSS 3. a 40M check payable to 'cash' get this together before NYC or Miami or Atlanta and they get it. It is the truth and we all know it. For all the talk about the South, if the Maloof's along with Beckham/Fuller decide to put a 20k SSS near the strip and are going to make Goldenballs the GM/face of the organization and promise to bring in a few aging Euro stars...Garber takes that shit in about a second. There would be huge news all over the country about vegas getting its first pro team and MLS gets lots of free press. But having said that, the chance of it happening is very small. I think Garber is talking NYC because he had some meetings and he thinks he can get a stadium and a check there so he is talking about it. If he thought he could get a check and a stadium somewhere else he would be pushing that city.
This. The US and Canada have about 45* markets with an existing major league franchise (i.e. MLS or higher-profile). There are probably about 10 more that could support a team. Undoubtedly, Las Vegas is in that latter group. "All" it takes for any of those ~37 markets without an MLS team is a willing billionaire and a solid stadium plan. *-DC and Baltimore separate, SF-SJ-Oakland together, GB-Milwaukee together.
agreed. 2M metro market + SSS + some super rich dude + a 40M check = franchise it is the honest truth. Garber will keep taking check, stadiums, and old dudes until their are none left. Over expansion is a myth in soccer, and we all know it. Guess what, this isn't NHL. Hockey isn't played everywhere on earth. If the cap keeps going up and the league just decides to increase the international slots per team, talent pool will never be an issue. As long as South America and Africa exists, there will be talent and lots of it. If Vegas steps up...and Miami...and Queens...and St. Louis...and Ottawa...and Tampa..and Atlanta...they ALL get in. Seriously. Garber will keep pushing the sales price each time, but if the checks clear, the teams are in. People don't understand that these expansion teams not only help for media/ad reasons but also help set league franchise values. Right now to buy an MLS franchise from MLS is 40M, which means no owner would sell their team for less than 40M because that is now the going rate. So this expansion will happen as long as the market demands it. Lets say Garber sends #20 to NYC for 40M and the next day someone offers 50M for a Vegas franchise, well on that day folks we will have #21. And so on. Every major league city is in play with enough money, and don't believe anyone who tells you different especially the Don.
The SSS is no longer needed in your equation. (ie Vancouver, San Jose, etc etc) All you need is a decent metro size and lots of cash.
agreed. SSS plans or Soccer converted stadium +major league city+dude with tons of cash = MLS franchise
You still need a "solid stadium plan" that will give the team the ability to collect adequate revenues, which requires an ownership group capable of creating or negotiating such a deal. San Jose has had to deal with the ECONOPOCALYPSE(tm), but they've got the plan in place, and controlled expenses at Buck Shaw. The one thing I can guarantee is that there will never be another Cotton Bowl/Meadowlands/RFK situation.
It's not farfetched to think that somewhere down the line a billionaire of some sort teams up with a casino, builds an air conditioned 20,000 seat soccer/entertainment venue, and brings MLS to Vegas. I've said that whichever league goes to Vegas first will do well. You've got a lot of people working the day shifts at the casinos who probably want something to do at night other than casinos.
If LV is viable then Atlantic City is, same shit except AC has a more grounded population, and oh yea, its surrounded by suburbs, not desert
Except that Atlantic City has 3 MLS teams within a four hour drive. One of which is only an hour away. Vegas is over four hours from the HDC. Not to mention that the Vegas metropolitan area has NINE times the population than that of the Atlantic City area. Even if half of the Vegas population is not "grounded" as you say, it's still four times larger than Atlantic City. The only thing they have in common is gambling. I assume that's what you mean by "same shit".
I don't think you understand how the jersey shore is populated. Atlantic City itself is not highly populated, but you get into the area that would be in an AC sports market, very suburban, very very densely populated, youth soccer is very big, it would also be the only team in that particular area making it very big locally, no competition in other sports, people would show up, i know that. now, am i saying AC is a viable MLS franchise right now? No sirrr. Is it more viable than LV? Yes
I know a given number of miles is more of a psychological barrier back east than it is west of the Mississippi, but really? 71 miles to Chester, a hundred years of rooting for Philly, NJ, or NYC teams, and you think the Jersey shore is a better market than a metro area of 1.4 million people that is completely isolated and has a AAA baseball team and nothing else. Yankees are weird.
The data I cited was for the MSA. Which is exactly what you are talking about. It includes all of Atlantic County. I don't think you understand how Vegas is populated. Have you ever even been there? Atlantic County is 671 square miles with a pop of 250,000. The city of Las Vegas is 131 square miles with 550,000. You really want to keep this argument up? Not only that, but are the inhabitants of the jersey shore really big soccer fans? I don't know, I'm just asking. And cowtown, not all Yankees are bad. Granted, I'm a first generation Yankee, all my ancestors were hillbillies.
Didn't say "bad." Said "weird." Not like me. By the way, did you know that Shiner Bock is the world's best beer, Tex-Mex its best cuisine, Robert Earl Keen and Townes Van Zant its best songwriters, and that beef brisket is the only truly acceptable form of barbecue? In all seriousness, though, proposing Atlantic City as a comparable market to Las Vegas because both have casinos is a mind-bogglingly provincial idea, at least when found amongst those who'd even be interested in the discussion.
Interestingly enough I just had a Shiner Bock last night with dinner. That is some great stuff. I first tried it about a year ago and I can't believe I'd gone that long without ever knowing about it. You can thank my ancestors for that beer as well, though. Because before they were hillbillies in West Virginia they were hillbillies in Bavaria. This discussion seems a bit pointless anyway. It doesn't look like there'll be any more MLS expansion any time in the next few years.
Its not the casinos, im not even a proponent of an MLS team in AC, your right it makes no sense. Have people taken to PU in the area? No but doesn't mean they should get a team.. And to only take the population of Atlantic County isn't really fair. But LV is even less viable, thats my point, LV is just plain dumb. I went to a Boardwalk Bullies game back in the day and the attendance was good
Care to elaborate on why LV is "just plain dumb"? Some facts would be nice. Otherwise it's just your opinion, which you are entitled to, of course. But if you don't back it up with anything then don't expect anyone to agree with you. This thread is full of reasons and sound evidence supporting why LV would be a good location for expansion, so you saying that it's "just plain dumb" seems to imply that you didn't RTFT. So, please tell us why LV isn't a viable choice?
What right minded person is going to shell out 40 mil for expansion and at least another 100 for a stadium in a market that has not proven that it can support professional sports? Is there a reason there are no pro teams currently in LV? Just bad luck, huh? Why does LV deserve a team over Phoenix, Minnesota, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Austin, San Antonio, Charlotte, Atlanta, Baltimore, Indy, Sacramento, San Diego, Ottawa, Pittsburgh, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, OKC, Detroit, Hartford, Buffalo? I think you need to make that argument before the viability one. With family in Henderson, I could make the trip out there once a year to see atlantic city play... Oh, RB, sorry, so its not some personal crusade against LV, it just doesnt make sense.
The whole discussion is ABOUT viability. LV is big enough and is a distinct market. If (and yes it's a big "if." that's why the thread said "viable.") they find the money man and a stadium deal, they are in. AC is much smaller and too close to other teams; it's not viable.
Deserve? Deserve isn't the issue here. No team is going to be started somewhere because one city "deserves" it more than another. As for the reason there aren't any major league sports teams in Vegas. Officially, most of the big leagues won't touch it because of the gambling issue. MLS has already gone on record saying they don't care. I don't have the link and I don't feel like looking it up but it's posted in this thread or the one that came before it. Your point about risking $100+ million is valid. But remember, lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. No one has taken the chance of Vegas so we don't know whether a team can succeed there. But, really, there is uncertainty in every potential city. You mention a couple of other cities that also have not supported major league teams before or have only supported one team and you mention two cities where MLS has failed. It seems like you're contradicting yourself.