It depends on if you replace Barcelona with a lesser Spanish club or not. Also you can't simply change the denominator from 7 to 6 because for two of those seasons Spain had 8 clubs competing.
More CL's? more world cups? I don't think it has either. Even if we were talking national teams both England and Spain have one world cup. You really are trying to grasp at straws aren't you? La Liga sucks, it's the Scottish league south. Passing the ball 5 yards back and sideways is boring as sh!t, and it sends me to sleep. Plus all the diving and rolling around on the floor, La liga is a disgrace, the players act like pussys and they give a bad impression of the game around the world.
epl sucks, they had to whore themselves out to oil moguls just to stay on la ligas level. You can jerk off to statistics, while I toast to trophies
Either way, that lesser Spanish club would not get 0 points. At the very least they would still get the bonus points for entering the CL group-stage. That's why I said it was a "quick and dirty calculation". Although still 98% accurate I bet. Especially since if Barca didn't exist, there is a good chance they wouldn't have had 8 teams in Europe those seasons.
'All that matters are trophies, your emotionally charged opinions have no legs to stand on.' You really dont get it do you! Trophies are obviously NOT all that matter otherwise the world would watch La Ligue - WHICH IT DOES NOT! Why? because the world DOES NOT want to watch a two horse race, the world DOES NOT find 'tippy tappy' football exciting, the world DOES NOT want to watch players flopping and rolling around at the slightest touch. All the insults in the world that you 'cowardly' throw at the English from the safety of your computer DOES NOT change these facts. Besides if its only trophies that count then perhaps we should agree on the seperate issue that the EPL has stronger teams than La Ligue because its the EPL that is the home of the current European Champions? I suggest you are the one with 'emotionally charged opinions' because you CANNOT accept that Spain does not have the worlds best football league (not even second, third, fourth or fifth best league).
from the safety of my pc? That's a big claim to make, not everyone is skinny nerd online, nor in my many years of amateur boxing did I learn to underestimate an opponent, although english boxers much like footie, tend to not be world class, so i'd "fancy" my chances with you lets talk about facts la liga has more cups in every category european clubs can play for FACT la liga is better FACT
La Liga could be the best league in the world if it got it's act together. La Liga has great players but the league nor some of clubs are run well. a) Right now it is all about RM and Barca and then also run clubs. b) 10/20 clubs in La Liga in 2011/12 owed €750m to Treasury in taxes and were deducted no points and allowed to spend away. c) 3 Clubs promoted for 2011/12 went in B.K. process, but weren't deducted any points. (Spain will finally start docking points of clubs that are in B.K. or owe monies to the Treasury or player/s starting from 2012/13 season) d) TV rights monies in Spain is a joke. e) Liga refs are not that great and favor RM and Barca over the rest. The worst ref in Euro 2012 was from Spain (Go rewatch the Poland - Greece game) - Too many La Liga refs like to be the star of the game/s. f) Also, 24% unemployment right now in Spain doesn't help the clubs, unless ofcourse you are RM or Barca. g) The new 52% tax rate is going to effect lot of clubs and having no Beckham rule of 24% tax rate for incoming foreign players (or foreign players who have there for over 6 years) will make it more expensive for clubs to sign or keep top foreign talent. Most players contracts are net / So clubs cost will be up in 2012/13 .
"la liga is better FACT" But it isnt a fact is it?? The fact is the world would prefer to watch other leagues therefore they are MORE APPEALING to the masses, therefore they are MORE successful, therefore they are BETTER leagues, these are all FACTS! 'from the safety of my pc? That's a big claim to make, not everyone is skinny nerd online, nor in my many years of amateur boxing did I learn to underestimate an opponent, although english boxers much like footie, tend to not be world class, so i'd "fancy" my chances with you ' Erm.......whatever - So now you are threatening me are you? I am yet to meet a Spaniard that has even come close to scaring me! Why dont you try growing up a little!
A better way of deciding who truly is the best team in Europe is: 1. at the end of each season compute coefficient points to get the top 4 leagues 2. get the champion of each league above So basically a mini superleague of 4 teams playing home and away games (6 games). The whole thing would take 3 weeks playing weekend and mid-week games. So this season would be: Real Madrid (likely winner) Man City Juventus Dortmund Last season would've been: Barcelona (likely winner) Man United Milan Dortmund
I didn't make a pompous assesment of being safe from a pc, you did. sevilla won europa in 2006, 2007 atletico madrid won it in 2010, 2012 valencia won it in 2004 ************************ Barca has won the cl 3 times in . the past 6 years, in dominating fashion while madrid won 3 in the late 90's and their last one in 2002. chelsea, liverpool, and manure have won it 3 times in the last 7 years..........all victories by penalties, not in dominating fashion, but won on a lottery. Manure won it in 99 by 2 headers in the closing minutes, while being dominated........ Sorry but epl does not impress me, low level clown league who import all of their talent because the english have none. La liga is better, FACT!
should be a fun year ahead. im confident for the premiership, but la liga is looking strong, juve look fearsome in defence, milan the new arsenal (lots of kids), a really strong bayern licking their wounds and looking to imporve ever further, dortmund the new barca, a 4th german side in the cl for the rist time in a over a decade, psg giving france a real potential contender for the first time in 2 decades, to be honest, ******** the premiership and la liga, the champions league is the best.
Sorry but epl does not impress me, low level clown league who import all of their talent because the english have none. But it doesnt matter what you think does it? The world watches the EPL over the Spanish League, therefore it is a better league than the Spanish league, doesnt matter if YOU think the English have no talent, doesnt matter if YOU think its a clown league, doesnt matter if YOU think the tippy tapping, diving, cheating you get in the Spanish league is more entertaining, it wouldnt even make any difference if Real Madrid was to win the next 100 Champions Leagues, the world PREFERS to watch the EPL over the Spanish league because it is FAR more entertaining and that is what the world wants - end of story. Just because you seem to think that anything Spanish is 'superior' and because you cant stand it if anybody disagrees with you you revert to pathetic insults.
Doesn't matter how you "feel"........this is not about entertainment, this about class, which la liga has the trophies that show it is a class above eplol
Doesn't matter how you "feel"........this is not about entertainment, this about class, which la liga has the trophies that show it is a class above eplol. I thought the question was 'La Liga: the best in the world?', I think that the league that generates the most interest worldwide is obviously the most successful league, not only is that currently the EPL (by some distance) but it is also a league that generates the most money, is home to the current European Champions, has a better gameday attendance and worldwide support. To suggest that football is 'not about entertainment' is one of the most ridiculous things Ive ever heard, that is EXACTLY what football is about! If you or your fellow countrymen want to forget about 'entertaining' the masses in favour of trying to stuff just 2 of the clubs in your league with as many world 'superstars' as possible then that is up to you. Be warned however having 2 such dominent teams in a league IS NOT going to endear the league to a football loving world. It wont make any difference how much YOU think everything Spanish is 'better', or how nationalistic you are a league that is a two horse race is NOT as interesting as a more competitive league. Incidentally I dont know how you can claim that La Liga has more 'class' than the EPL - it is well known that La Liga is full of diving and cheating - that my friend is not classy!
Germany has the most competitive league, as far as entertainment, barca is the pinnacle of master class football. Best team in the world, past, present, and future.
Germany has the most competitive league, as far as entertainment, barca is the pinnacle of master class football. Best team in the world, past, present, and future. I agree about Germany - the German league is a wonderful league and it could be argued that it is the worlds best in many ways. The German league is a MUCH better league than the Spanish league, Barcelona certainly have great skill which is to be admired but the pinnacle of class football? Perhaps not - they do not have a plan 'B' to their game and a lot of people find the sidewards and backwards tippy tappy passing game a little 'dull'.
That doesn't make any sense. If Plan A is working out so well and you're dominating some of the biggest teams in world football, why would you need a Plan B? As for people finding tiki-taka boring to watch, that has mostly been the issue with the Spanish NT because they don't have Messi (or Villa at these Euros) and he is the man along with Iniesta who brings the entertainment into watching this Barca team. And there are people who adore tiki-taka to cancel out or even overpopulate those who think it's boring, so it's not really a reason as to why it isn't the pinnacle of football.
Dont get me wrong I do admire the skill of the Barcelona team, very much so, I also believe that they are 'probably' currently the best club team in the world, all I am saying is that to some people the constant sideways and backwards passing can become a little dull, having them dominate the other La Liga teams to such an extent is also damaging to the whole 'package' of the Spanish league but what can you do? you cant ask them to go a little easy to give the others a chance! The Scottish league has historically the same problem with Celtic and Rangers being so far ahead of the other clubs, you wont however find any Scots proclaiming that the Scottish league is the worlds best league because the Scots can appreciate the problems that having 2 such dominant teams poses to the marketability of their league. As for having a plan 'B', every team needs the ability to be able to change tactics when necessary, I think it might have come in handy when playing Chelsea as plan 'A' wasnt really working, perhaps if the Barcelona team could change tactics you could argue that it would be an even better team? I think that SpaniardFC lets his nationalistic ferver blind him - he seems to think that everything Spanish is perfect when the reality is nothing and nobody is perfect, Barcelona are good, the Spanish national team is good but the Spanish league is not anywhere near the worlds best league.
I don't disagree with it becoming a little dull at times, sometimes they do tend to overpass it and don't look for that cutting edge. I just said that this is mostly the case for the Spanish national team that we saw at the Euros this summer because they had no real forward due to Torres' poor form and Villa's injury. We saw changes in that when the likes of Pedro, Mata, and Navas began to play more, but they weren't consistently in the team. Sometimes too many creative players makes the team lose that cutting edge and ability to finish the chances they get sometimes, simply because there isn't a guy there to finish them off. This isn't the case with Barca though. They have Messi, Alexis, Pedro, Villa, Alves, and Iniesta who are always forward thinking and looking to create chances rather than just keep the ball and pass it around in midfield. Spain are an entertaining team to watch but only when they have some of their pacier wingers and a proper finisher in the team otherwise they will just grind out results (which is a good thing because they weren't able to do that a few years ago when they weren't so successful, that's a big and positive change on their part) and sometimes it can get dull to watch. The Scottish league shouldn't be compared to La Liga in any way honestly. The footballing standards in Scotland are really poor nowadays and their clubs are underperforming more and more in Europe every season which shows that they are on a downfall, even their big two because of the lack of competitiveness in Scotland, as shown by Rangers who were beaten by smaller Eastern European clubs in the shape of Malmo and Maribor last season, which pales in comparison to their UEFA Cup run to the final in 2008. The more uncompetitive the league gets, the worse it will be for Scottish football in the long run. Celtic and Rangers have no one to challenge them domestically besides themselves and that's why they're starting to struggle alot in European competitions as well because it comes as a difficult test to them whenever they meet any decent team in Europe who's well drilled and knows how to execute their gameplan. Even the national team seems to have suffered a bit since that Euro 08 qualifying campaign. They used to battle the likes of Italy and France for a place in the Euros, nowadays they can barely deal with the likes of Lithuania and Czech Republic. Outside of England (maybe even in England when you don't take the foreigners into question), the footballing standards in the UK are getting increasingly worse. Well, we can always say something different may have worked when a result doesn't go your way, can't we? It's not the lack of a Plan 'B' that Barca were knocked out, it's many different factors that come before that. I'll try and name a few that easily come to mind; 1) Fatigue issues - Barca had loads of possession over the CL semi and Clasico games that week but their midfield trio of Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta looked a bit sluggish and moved the ball at a slower pace than they usually do, especially in such high level matches. Xavi is pretty much into the twilight of his career and had already suffered from burnout on two separate occasions last season before those games so him not being at his best came as no surprise. Iniesta was misplacing passes on several occasions and found it difficult to weave his way past the Real and Chelsea players, he didn't look himself at all in those games. Busquets was a little less aware defensively than usual and it allowed chances to creep through for the opponents, which they took. Alves looked awfully tired too and didn't bomb forward as much as we've come to know him for, while the absence of Pique surely couldn't have helped Barca, no matter what kind of form he was in at the time. 2) Pep's gambles - Many consider Pep as the best coach in the world. Whether or not that's true is a matter of debate, but he surely is the bravest. Starting Tello and Thiago in the Clasico was a huge gamble, given the youngsters' inexperience in such a big game. It didn't pay off but his faith in the youth players is astounding, something you won't find at any other big club in Europe or from any other manager. He took an even bigger gamble in the return leg against Chelsea by starting Cuenca over Alves and making the team stronger offensively, taking the risk and the hit on the defensive side of their game just so Barca could score goals and create chances. Things weren't going all too well so he brought on Tello instead of Pedro, another risky move. Once again it didn't pay off but for someone to take these sort of gambles in their selections for league deciding Clasicos and CL semifinal matches is unheard of surely and not many managers would want to do that. The point here is that Pep loves to take these gambles and show his trust in every player in his team by giving them these opportunities. In the last four years, most of these gambles have paid off so it's very hard to argue with that. One would argue though that if he had put the experienced players in the team that Barca would have got the job done. Who knows... 3) The absences of Villa and Abidal - Every player in Barca's squad has been crucial to their success as demonstrated by Pep's faith in them. The absences of Villa and Abidal though hurt the team in this tie and it was very clear. The goals from Ramires and Drogba both were scored from Abidal's side, where Adriano (an attack minded, wide player) was playing at. Adriano isn't a central defender and he's barely played there before in his career while Abidal favors that position more than he does at leftback. Had he been there, one of those goals could probably have been very much avoided. Villa is a player who loves to shoot and he's one of the best in the world at doing so from long distance. It's what makes him one of the best strikers around and had he been there instead of someone like Cuenca/Fabregas/Alexis, Barca would surely have created more chances, had more of a cutting edge, and the probability of their chances of going through would likely have increased. Alexis is more of a dribbling winger, Cuenca more of a crosser, and Fabregas is a playmaker. All three played in the front three positions. Had Villa been there, or even a Pedro in form and confidence, Barca would likely have scored more goals than they did. 4) RFEF scheduling - Barcelona had to play the biggest game in Spanish football right in between their two CL semi meetings with Chelsea, meaning they could ill afford to rest players or they'd risk throwing the league away to Real. The scheduling of this match by the RFEF (Spanish FA) was terrible, simply put. Both Barca and Real were affected by that since they had to play their best team due to the importance, history, and pride of the match. Chelsea and Bayern put all their eggs into the CL basket though and set the league aside on the list of priorities and rested many of their players as a result that weekend. Both teams made something like 8 or 9 changes for their league matches that day which obviously meant they would be fresher when the CL games in midweek come 'round. This had an effect on the final outcome of the ties surely because I'd imagine a fresher Barca would move the ball at a faster flow than they did and create more chances as a result while Real would surely grab more control of the midfield against Bayern than they did as well. 5) Chelsea's luck - Barca's Plan 'A' could just as easily have worked as it failed, but for their lack of luck in front of goal at times along with Chelsea scoring 3 of just 5 chances over the two legs. Barca hit the woodwork twice in the first leg and had two shots cleared off the line while they hit the woodwork twice once more in the second leg, had a goal disallowed, and were denied twice from point blank by Cech. Chelsea barely had a sniff over the 180 minutes but when they got one, they took their chance pretty much every single time. It made for one of the most surprising wins in CL knockout stage history with how Chelsea barely got anything at all into Barca's HALF over the two legs but still managed to win the tie on aggregate and overcome one of the best club sides of all times. They needed luck though as every winner does in this competition and the amount they had last season makes their CL success probably the most shocking of all time. Those are just a few of the reasons I could think of as to why Barca didn't beat Chelsea. There are more but I just wanted to get the main points down. I don't think the lack of a Plan 'B' is why they went out. They've faced a bunker team in the CL semifinals in every single season of Pep's reign and they won two of them and lost the other two. Sure having a Plan 'B' would have helped them as it would to any other side, but it's not one of the main reasons as to why they couldn't get the job done against Chelsea. It was more about the effort of the Chelsea players and the luck that had abandoned them for years in Europe which finally fell their way this year.