LA Galaxy vs Seattle Sounders 2nd Leg WCF (R)

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Slaskwroclaw18, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. Slaskwroclaw18

    Slaskwroclaw18 Member

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    Intense game so far for Geiger. Johnson goal was called back for offside with replays showing Johnson was barely onside. Now LA got awarded for a penalty for a blocked Keane cross in the box. Was the hand in an unatural positon: Yes. Was it intentional: Ehhhhh. Certainly a bold call to make but I think it was the right one.


  2. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

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    Twellman really needs to STFU. Every time he opens his mouth about referees, I'm become more embarrassed and ashamed that he played for New England.

    "They should change the rule so that if the ball hits your arm in the box, it's a PK"

    No, Twellman, that's a terrible idea. The "deliberate" wording is there for a reason.
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  3. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

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    Did it hit both hands?
  4. Slaskwroclaw18

    Slaskwroclaw18 Member

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    That what it looked like. It hit his left arm and deflected up to his right.


  5. Slaskwroclaw18

    Slaskwroclaw18 Member

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    Alonso with a 2CT after the final whistle for arguing with Geiger.
  6. traremark

    traremark Member

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    Was it intentional? What does ehhhh mean? The answer is absolutely not! There are some situations that you absolutely cannot make that call and this is one. Players work all year long to get into this situation......it is coming down to the final 20 minutes of a PLAYOFF SERIES......it has to be 100% a penalty to make that call.....this is not the time to make a bold call......the fact that you have to think it was the right call means it was wrong......HAS TO BE 100% and that was not even close!
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  7. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

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    I rarely comment here, but beyond the two goal swing they provided for LA, this crew was inconsistent all game. Geiger really did a poor job of defining what crosses the line. Both teams look bewildered every time the whistle blew.

    I still think Geiger the best referee we have, but that says more about the other MLS refs than it says about Geiger.
  8. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member

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    The PK is a call that has to be made. Keane's hand had been flailing around that entire sequence in the box. And then when the ball finally did hit it, it was outstreatched above his head. I mean, that is a PK in the playoffs, in preseason, and every game in between, and in every league in the world.

    That doesn't mean Seattle wasn't hard done though. Johnson's disallowed goal in the 10th minute is a game changer. That is a really unfortunate miss by the AR. Plus, Alonso was sent for 2CT, but that first CT was pretty lame, and it looked like the foul could have even been in his favor. But the game changer was certainly the disallwoed goal.
  9. uniqueconstraint

    uniqueconstraint Member

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    I thought Geiger did better than the commentators, clear PK (if not for it hitting one arm, then surely for hitting the other). Seattle only have themselves to blame, Montero didn't score at all in the playoffs (I think), many more reasons other than Geiger for LA advancing.

    I don't think it mattered how Geiger was going to call that game, there were points in the match were neither team wanted to play soccer - just beat the crap out of each other and argue about every whistle.

    The Johnson goal called back is unfortunate, and the crew should be held to account for that in post-match.

    Seattle should be ashamed for the post-match behavior of players who should be mature enough to know better. That Geiger put the card away and didn't caution Johnson, etc. is a testament to his patience.
  10. mtn335

    mtn335 Member

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    I recognize my judgement is clouded here...but as a fan that was frustrating to watch. Both critical decisions go against Seattle. Johnson was clearly onside on review, and the penalty is marginal. It can be defended, but the deliberate-ness is far from certain. Feeling hard done by, as the Brits say...I will go look after the sting wears off and see how different that play looks. :p

    Also: 4-5-1, Sigi? Really? There's the real reason Seattle lost... *sigh*
  11. traremark

    traremark Member

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    Keane's hand??? Umm...what game were you watching....you are confused tro....driven ball, no intent....Geiger now becomes the story of the game....something every referee wants to avoid.....terrible decision!
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  12. mtn335

    mtn335 Member

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    Agreed on both counts.
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

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    I love the implication you're making that you think it's okay for referees to award penalties when it's not 100% clear the rest of the year.

    Look, if Geiger looks at that play and thinks it's a penalty--which he has every reason to do--then he's got to give it. What happens when he ignores it, Seattle ties it up, and wins in extra time? Then Los Angeles is making the "we played all year, etc. etc., etc. but you didn't give us the penalty we earned" argument. Your argument cuts both ways.

    As a neutral, I hated to see it called. As a referee, I know why Geiger called it.

    I have more sympathy over the offside decision, but that's a really tough one for Wienckowski because Johnson's body was shielding the entirety of the defender behind him. Plus, Seattle's first goal came very quickly after that. I know Seattle fans won't accept this reasoning, but I think it's pretty safe to say if the first goal went in, the next couple minutes would have been different so you can't be sure there would have been two goals in quick succession.
  14. uniqueconstraint

    uniqueconstraint Member

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    Wrong player, it was Johanson for Seattle. Keane converted the penalty. Other than that - um, no.
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

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    Is it really, though? But no means am I excusing an incorrect decision. But what are the chances a goal gets scored in the 12th minute if the goal in the 10th isn't called back? Maybe I'm grasping here, but I feel like the play that ends up resulting in the 12th minute goal never happens if we go back up field and kick off in the 11th minute.
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  16. mtn335

    mtn335 Member

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    Sympathy is fine, but even an understandable miss is still a miss. When a miss calls back a goal, accountability needs to go with they sympathy. Yes, it is a tough play, but if the defender is shielded, then the AR is guessing. Bringing back a goal on a guess is a tough pill. As for changing the tone of the game: you are probably right, but the fact is that Seattle scored three goals tonight, and LA's goal came on a penalty that is a coin flip at best. Right or wrong, it's very frustrating.
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  17. uniqueconstraint

    uniqueconstraint Member

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    Precisely why we're directed to leave the flag down when in doubt.
    Something I would bet the crew is being reminded of right now.
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  18. mtn335

    mtn335 Member

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    By the way, I am in no way arguing that the Sounder loss can or should be laid at Geiger's feet. Sigi gets the blame here for remarkably stupid tactics in leg 1. Frustrating tonight, that's all.
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  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

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    Understood on all counts.

    The only disagreement I'd have is that the AR isn't guessing. If he literally can't see the guy behind him, which can occasionally happen with sight lines when the attacker is between the AR and the last defender, he's going on what he sees, which is that the attacker looks closet to the goal line. It doesn't mean he's right--but it's different than "guessing." It's calling what he can see.
  20. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

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    Intentional isn't the benchmark, DELIBERATE is.

    Its a 100% penalty, in this game and every other game in the world.

    The hand is clearly in an unnatural position and you can even make the claim that the hand goes to the ball, not vice versa. To claim otherwise is idiotic. Plus, it hit BOTH hands for Gods sake.

    The offside decision early on was unfortunate...and VERY close. I think MassRef is spot on when he says if Seattle scores that one maybe they dont score two minutes later. other than that, I cant see how anyone can have any complaints with geiger and as uniqueconstraint says, those Seattle assclowns should be ashamed of themselves for the post match circus act.
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  21. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

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    Oh geeez....ohhh my!!!!
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  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't want to be a broken record, but I would say that I'm quite certain Wienckowski didn't have doubt from what he was looking at. This seems to be more a problem of angle of sight, rather than following instructions.
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  23. mtn335

    mtn335 Member

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    You could be right...without asking the AR what he saw, it's tough to know. But if you cannot see the SLD because of the large attacker, then all you know is that they are close together. If you can't see somebody's shoulder sticking one way or the other, that seems to imply that they are level, doesn't it? If he can't see the SLD, he might not be guessing, but he can't be 100%, either.

    ETA: I think what I'm trying to say is that guessing isn't a binary thing - you can be guessing a little bit, or pulling one out of your ear. This one is somewhere in between, I'd suspect, but either he flat saw it wrong (which happens to the best of us) or he put the flag up when he wasn't sure. Either a guess (at least a partial one), or a very bad miss.
  24. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

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    It doesn't have to be intentional.
  25. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

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    The whole game would have been different. That's why it's called a "game changing decision," no?
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